Perhaps you are not aware that numerous civilians do, in fact, own mini-guns and tanks.Originally Posted by charlie b
All it takes is money as they are expensive and, of course, approval from the BATFE and payment of the transfer tax. Apparently, they couldn't even actually ban those back in '34 but they could tax them. No ban because of....you guessed it, the 2nd Amendment.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
Banning guns that fall threw the loop holes is just the start. We make their job a whole lot easier if we just say "O well I don't have one of those anyway."
If liars pants really did catch on fire, watching the news would be a lot more fun!
A while back, I purchased a 16" 300 BO barrel to replace the 8.5" one I was using with a braced AR. I figured the cost of 16" barrels would skyrocket with what ever ruling came out.
Now I have the choices of tossing the brace, using the brace for a 16" gun or submitting for the "free" SBR stamp. The stamp is a tempting option at this point.
That is the way I am leaning as well. Might just get the stamp and put a stock on it. I can't hit squat with it as a pistol anyway. I still feel like I should not be forced to do it though. For me it is just something I was already contemplating.
I will wait 60 days to verify everything first that will give me 2 more months prior to the dead line of 120 days.
To be safe I would make sure the braces are removed and gone; this also includes the kak type pistol buffer tubes that were longer than the permitted 6.5 inch pistol buffer tubes mentioned below. I have found strike industry pistol buffer tubes that are just over 5 inches and there is likely no way that ATF should consider those long enough to be used by themselves as a buttstock. But there is an ATF maybe here that is troubling. (See bottom paragraph for exact ATF quotation)
The big question is whether this set up will be shootable with a tensioning sling and using a check rest to fire the gun. If not it will all have to wait until sometime in the future when these rules are reversed.
From the recent ATF final rule documentThe Strike Industries Pistol Buffer Tube introduces added functionality to an often overlooked part of an AR pistol PDW. At an overall length of just over 5 inches, the pistol buffer tube reduces the pistol’s overall length. The pistol buffer tube comes complete with our proven tungsten filled buffer and flat-wire buffer spring to aid in reliable cycling over a long service life. The receiver extension features an anti-rotation tab that locks into place over the buffer retaining plunger.
(5) Final Rule: Necessary for the cycle of operations of the firearm.
The rule provides that ATF may also consider whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations (i.e., to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive). This consideration is drawn from the NPRM and the proposed Worksheet 4999, which assessed two points for “Extended AR-type Pistol Buffer Tube,” “Inclusion of FoldingAdapter extendinglength of pull,” and “Use of ‘Spacers’ to extend length of pull.” Id. at 30831. These extensions provide additional material to the firearm that is not required for the cycle of operations and, therefore, can be an indicator the firearm is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder. In contrast, material on a firearm that extends the rear surface area of the firearm toward the shooter but is required for the cycle of operations, such as an AR¬type pistol with a standard 6 to 6-1/2 inch buffer tube, maybe an indicator that the firearm is not be designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder. Even if a weapon is equipped with an accessory, component, or other rearward attachment (e.g.,a “stabilizing brace”) that provides surface area that allows shouldering of the weapon, under the rule, whether the accessory, component, or other rearward attachment is necessary for the cycle of operations needs to be considered in determining whether a firearm is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder.
I'm afraid that dog won't hunt.
If you get the free stamp, you had better keep the brace on it, once you swap it to a stock you are entering uncharted space.
Why do you think they are requiring a photo?
Do you really think these people are stupid? Devious, power crazed, underhanded, yes, stupid no.
But, what the hell, go for it, we need a test case.
A rifle stock replacing the brace on an SBR should be fine. I assume they want a picture to confirm it has a brace or rifle stock on it that needs that written down in their records as an SBR. What if the brace is still legally a handgun according to their rules. What if someone for a joke is registering a toy gun for a big ha ha. Asking for a picture seems like common sense to me.
I am just going to wait for the NRA to file the lawsuit and watch it go to the Supreme Court to overturn it.
Those of you who want to clip their nuts permanently, just send your Reps a request to cut the ATF's budget in half. We own the House come January.
Waiting for the nra to anything about anything since the nfa is hilarious. I wish we had sarcasm font . Cause you’d win the internet for today.
And all these fudds talking about “loopholes” and “dodging” . Have fun with your trap guns and old milsurp s - until they come and burn your house down and shoot your dog. Cause why would anyone need to make their own boolits and or possibly want to own a weapon of war like a k98 or a Springfield?
But still laughing about the nra comment - might raise enough funds to buy Wayne some suits or hunt another elephant.
I figured out what I'm gonna do. I've got a 300 BO upper that's a little guy 10" barrel. I'll take that guy down to parts. Then sell the brace on ebay... Also, I just bought a 20" 410 upper for an AR15. I have a little reloading kit for 410 and a svarog slug mold for 410... Now I've repurposed my lower as a racoon slayer.
WWG1WGA
Be interesting to read how the .410 barrel goes. It is only 2.5 inch shells is my understanding. Will you need a new carrier special gas tube?
I doubt that there is too much of a market for braces at the moment. I looked at the possibility and decided .410 was not a good idea for me on an AR.
Good luck with it. I rather have one in 9mm, 40-10mm, or 45 acp.
That’s not exactly true. As someone that has multiple SBRs let me add a little info…
Yes, how it is registered is how it is supposed to stay. Meaning I’d your configuration is a 6” barrel with a OAL of 23” then that is what you’re stuck with UNLESS you send them a signed letter asking for modification of your Form 1 to include additional configurations.
As an example, I have an AR with two configurations. One is a 4” with a 21” OAL. The second configuration is an 8” with a 25” OAL. As you are filing a Form 1 for the pistol for entry into the registry as an SBR the same rules applies. So modification of your configuration should be straightforward.
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"A hand on a gun is better than a cop on the phone," Jerry Ellis, Oklahoma State House of Representatives.
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I'd have to dig through some stuff but I don't believe that is 100% true. Permanent changes should be amended with the atf. Temporary changes do not. You just need to retain all originally configured parts so it can go back to registered condition or notify them of changes.
Correct, you have to maintain your original configuration so long as that is how your Form 1 is configured. I'm aware of no mean to do a temporary configuration change. If that can be done let me know, as that is easier than writing them a new letter ever time I want to change my mind.
Currently looking for a Lyman/Ideal 311419 Mold - PM if you have one you'd like to get rid of!
JDGabbard's Feedback Thread
"A hand on a gun is better than a cop on the phone," Jerry Ellis, Oklahoma State House of Representatives.
The neighbors refer to me affectionately as, "The nut up on the ridge with the cannon." - MaxHeadSpace.
Jdgabbard's very own boolit boxes pattern!
Yes, I am aware. I just hold that even the tax, registration and federal restrictions are unconstitutional.Perhaps you are not aware that numerous civilians do, in fact, own mini-guns and tanks.
All it takes is money as they are expensive and, of course, approval from the BATFE and payment of the transfer tax. Apparently, they couldn't even actually ban those back in '34 but they could tax them. No ban because of....you guessed it, the 2nd Amendment.
Until then I live within the law...mostly
Some old faq I ran across. You can change temporarily if you retain old parts and no notification is required. Change it and get rid of the parts will require atf notification. Put a 16 inche+ barrel on it and you can travel freely without a 5320.20 as well.
Q: May I transfer the receiver of a short-barrel rifle or shotgun to an FFL or to an individual as I would any GCA firearm?
A: Yes. A weapon that does not meet the definition of a NFA firearm is not subject to the NFA and a possessor or transferor needn't comply with NFA requirements. The firearm is considered a GCA firearm and may be transferred under the provisions of that law.
Q: Who is responsible for notifying the NFA Branch when I transfer the GCA firearm to a FFL or another individual?
A: There is no requirement that the transferor or transferee of a GCA firearm notify the NFA branch of a transfer or that either party determine whether the firearm was previously registered under the NFA. There is no also no requirement for the registrant or possessor of a NFA firearm to notify ATF of the removal of features that caused the firearm to be subject to the NFA; however, ATF recommends the owner notify the NFA Branch in writing if a firearm is permanently removed from the NFA.
Q: What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?
A: While a receiver alone may be classified as a firearm under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).
Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
A: A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA firearm pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.
Q: If I remove the short barrel from the registered SBR or SBS, is the receiver still subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations?
A: If the possessor retains control over the barrel or other parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm would still be subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations. ATF recommends contacting State law enforcement officials to ensure compliance with state and local law.
Q: Does the installation of a barrel over 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA? If so, is this considered a permanent change?
A: Installation of a barrel greater than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) will remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA provided the registrant does not maintain control over the parts necessary to reconfigure the firearm as a SBR or SBS.
No attorney here, but if sold as a pistol, a carbine buffer tube is legal. If sold as a rifle and converted to a pistol w/brace according to their rule, removing the brace it's still illegal. I was gifted an AR pistol with brace. Since it was sold as a pistol, I can replace brace with a carbine/pistol length buffer tube and be legal. Ruling is so fuzzy (typical government double talk) one can make their case for whatever outcome they want. I like the original ruling: "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
Removing the brace is not enough... you have to destroy it.
The NFA tax came about because it was voted on by congress, the only authority to levy taxes. It seems like until NFA is repealed, not paying that tax is a violation of the act no matter what the BATFE says.
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