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Thread: Opinions on a new 44 Mag levergun purchase

  1. #81
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    Welp...This Ruger is trying desperately to shoot the 310 Lee RF with gas check.. (No...I am Forcing this).. Started with 8gr of Unique.. just to get it on paper...Barely..
    17- 18 - 19 gr H110... Gettin snappy... but not grouping...Oh...4227 was just Not in the cards... probably My bias!! You do know about self fullfilling Prophecies?? Right??
    Anyway..In the Accurate reloading manual #2... 355 gr "some such boolit", with 18 - 20 gr of AA1680!!!... Fine, throw a few in the box... whilst Im Blasting between Shivering!!! (kinda Cold in the Middle of Michigan just now!!!!)
    Hmmm Not Hot!... Don't slap yer shoulder (with that damn crescent buttplate) too hard, and...all 5 in a Nice little circle!!!
    Certainly Not Done... But... after I give all of them another Go... Including a fair shot for 4227, I am Learning volumes about Pistol Calibers in Rifles...(sorry my First experience) Trying to share a bit...

    BTW... The Lee Boolit (310 RF with Gas Check) has Two crimp grooves... the "long" version will Not function in my Ruger 96.. so...cannot use the Handgun loading!!!
    relating this mostly so someone Following the Loadings...don't neglect the OAL, and Available Powder Space!!!
    Off I go...

    Edit; and Here I go.. lamenting the OAL not matching my Handgun load....Duh!!! Reduce My favorite Blue Dot load from the SBH load, and a new, shorter OAL!!!! Yea...I'm Old and perhaps my mind aint Perfect!!!

  2. #82
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Just to be a smartarse, you know the easy way to shoot 300 grain slugs is a .45-70, right?
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Just to be a smartarse, you know the easy way to shoot 300 grain slugs is a .45-70, right?
    LOL... Not a Smart Ass at all...Just Smart!!!... No ... Sensible!! Howzzat??
    It's just that the 310 Lee boolit seems to be a really good/accurate design.. If this Long Gun can handle it...Cool...if No??? I'll Be fine...Means I only need one Load that works exceedingly well in the SBH and The Lever gun....... Others??? Will Wait

  4. #84
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    you do know its OK to slip on a rubber recoil pad......

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by racepres View Post
    LOL... Not a Smart Ass at all...Just Smart!!!... No ... Sensible!! Howzzat??
    It's just that the 310 Lee boolit seems to be a really good/accurate design.. If this Long Gun can handle it...Cool...if No??? I'll Be fine...Means I only need one Load that works exceedingly well in the SBH and The Lever gun....... Others??? Will Wait
    Oh I understand totally. Can't imagine how many hours of my life I've wasted trying to do something my way when an easy alternative is staring me in the face!
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milky Duck View Post
    you do know its OK to slip on a rubber recoil pad......
    LOL
    This Gun looks kinda Odd in so many ways now...I guess that surely won't hurt!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Oh I understand totally. Can't imagine how many hours of my life I've wasted trying to do something my way when an easy alternative is staring me in the face!
    Oh...Experience is Never a Waste...And I have had some Very "wrong" experiences!!!!!! Gotta take the Bitter with the Sour me Thinks!!!!

  7. #87
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    5 pages in this thread and not one mention of twist rate? Typically you find most mfgrs use a 1:38" twist rate. This is fine if you are driving the heavies at enough velocity to spin them up, since they REQUIRE ample spin to stabilize them. Shooting a heavy for caliber boolit to a target velocity in a slow twist barrel guarantees groups will be rather large.

    Ruger says your 96 is 1:20 this is a very good thing. It may also be that your rifle prefers a certain load for that 310 boolit and you haven't quite hit on it just yet.

    Wikipedia says:

    1 turn in 20"
    The rifled barrel has a twist rate of 1 turn in 20", allowing heavy hunting bullets to stabilize. This is relatively rare for . 44 Magnum firearms, which usually are rifled at a rate of 1 turn in 38 inches. The 1:20" twist enables the use of 325gr ammunition for hunting large game.
    Last edited by DougGuy; 01-31-2023 at 10:45 AM.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    5 pages in this thread and not one mention of twist rate? Typically you find most mfgrs use a 1:38" twist rate. This is fine if you are driving the heavies at enough velocity to spin them up, since they REQUIRE ample spin to stabilize them. Shooting a heavy for caliber boolit to a target velocity in a slow twist barrel guarantees groups will be rather large.

    Ruger says your 96 is 1:20 this is a very good thing. It may also be that your rifle prefers a certain load for that 310 boolit and you haven't quite hit on it just yet.

    Wikipedia says:

    1 turn in 20"
    The rifled barrel has a twist rate of 1 turn in 20", allowing heavy hunting bullets to stabilize. This is relatively rare for . 44 Magnum firearms, which usually are rifled at a rate of 1 turn in 38 inches. The 1:20" twist enables the use of 325gr ammunition for hunting large game.
    I guess I should have stated that that is one of the things I did indeed look at before pulling the trigger on this Firearm..and one reason I started with the 200 gr Boolit...Not knowing if Lighter would be OK
    Thanks for the Input @DougGuy

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by racepres View Post
    I guess I should have stated that that is one of the things I did indeed look at before pulling the trigger on this Firearm..and one reason I started with the 200 gr Boolit...Not knowing if Lighter would be OK
    Thanks for the Input @DougGuy
    Ok cool.. Next up find out what will fit in the throat and size to fit the throat.

    I shoot that same 310gr GC boolit cast in 50/50+2% over I think 17.0gr 2400 and it shot pretty good, was easily a deer killer out to 50+yds out of a 7 1/2" SBH. I modified a Lee collet style FCD and "fine tuned" the crimp band to my liking by making the crimp band narrower and moving it down onto the case mouth. This crimp was VERY instrumental in lowering my ES to numbers below 20, groups responded in like kind after using this crimp. Here is a thread I wrote and documented the mods to the die: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post2239315

    I also discovered that the softer the alloy, the greater crimp is needed as under magnum loads, heavy, soft boolits will move as they can swage against the crimp enough that the base of the boolit can move disrupting your case volume and causing pressure to react accordingly. Harder alloys tend to not migrate against the crimp.

    The modded FCD keeps things in place and provides a nano amount of delay which allows the flame front more time to build, and prevents the boolit from moving just from the initial pressure of the primer firing off. IMO, a hard roll crimp on a soft bullet alloyed for hunting is not enough to insure no movement will occur.
    Last edited by DougGuy; 01-31-2023 at 12:09 PM.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  10. #90
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Once again, Doug shines a light in the darkness!
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    Ok cool.. Next up find out what will fit in the throat and size to fit the throat.

    I shoot that same 310gr GC boolit cast in 50/50+2% over I think 17.0gr 2400 and it shot pretty good, was easily a deer killer out to 50+yds out of a 7 1/2" SBH. I modified a Lee collet style FCD and "fine tuned" the crimp band to my liking by making the crimp band narrower and moving it down onto the case mouth. This crimp was VERY instrumental in lowering my ES to numbers below 20, groups responded in like kind after using this crimp. Here is a thread I wrote and documented the mods to the die: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post2239315

    I also discovered that the softer the alloy, the greater crimp is needed as under magnum loads, heavy, soft boolits will move as they can swage against the crimp enough that the base of the boolit can move disrupting your case volume and causing pressure to react accordingly. Harder alloys tend to not migrate against the crimp.

    The modded FCD keeps things in place and provides a nano amount of delay which allows the flame front more time to build, and prevents the boolit from moving just from the initial pressure of the primer firing off. IMO, a hard roll crimp on a soft bullet alloyed for hunting is not enough to insure no movement will occur.
    Good Stuff...Thanks..
    I have Not checked the throat.. But I shall..
    On the COAL changing with recoil..I am going to drop the rotary magazine prior to inspect last shot next time...Just to see if that happens.. tho..I assume they can only get as long as that relatively short Magazine allows?? Maybe?

    BTW... I cannot use the same load I am using in the SBH, as it uses the lower (longer COAL) crimp groove.. I see No reason to change the load that Works in the BH... Tho I will probably shoot the Rifle load in the handgun to see!!!

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by racepres View Post
    Good Stuff...Thanks..
    I have Not checked the throat.. But I shall..
    On the COAL changing with recoil..I am going to drop the rotary magazine prior to inspect last shot next time...Just to see if that happens.. tho..I assume they can only get as long as that relatively short Magazine allows?? Maybe?

    BTW... I cannot use the same load I am using in the SBH, as it uses the lower (longer COAL) crimp groove.. I see No reason to change the load that Works in the BH... Tho I will probably shoot the Rifle load in the handgun to see!!!
    Once you get the fitment in the throat, it would benefit to shoot over a chrony, this is an invaluable tool to track down variances that open groups.

    The chrony instantly won me over to my own handiwork, the modded collet crimp. I learned something that day!
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    Once you get the fitment in the throat, it would benefit to shoot over a chrony, this is an invaluable tool to track down variances that open groups.

    The chrony instantly won me over to my own handiwork, the modded collet crimp. I learned something that day!
    Yes absolutely on the chronograph... Been having one for a very long time now.. Late '80's I think!!!
    I would normally do all my load development and target work over the Chronograph...But.. Conditions are Not always conducive.. Mine works poorly in strong light...diffusers or Not.. and , last time out I had a Slip and Fall on the darn Ice...busted the crap outta my Tripod...But Not the Chrony!!!!
    Oh...and every once in a Blue Moon.. the Data don't align with the Groups.. So, I do Not feel my time is ever wasted shooting, even if Not well recorded!!
    Not today tho.... Starting out a negative temps, and getting all the way to 5 or six degrees is Not time for me to be Outside Long!!!!

  14. #94
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    Welp...good a time as any to check that throat...But...of course...I do Not seem to be able to find my .440 lead balls!!!
    Course, I havent decided how to get the darn thing in there anyway!!! Never did an arm I could Not access straight into the breach before!!
    Guess I'm Spoiled on Bolt guns!!!!
    So The heck with that just now...I'll pulll that fugly scope off, replace with a k-4 Weaver ...even just for Now... But, not on them Tall Rings.
    Yumpin Yimminy Yoder!!! Ruger is Sure Proud of their Scope Rings!!!! That gonna wait a little bit too me thinks!! Thinkin I could buy a Thousand Primers for the cost of Ruger Low rings!!!!!

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by racepres View Post
    Welp...good a time as any to check that throat...But...of course...I do Not seem to be able to find my .440 lead balls!!!
    Course, I havent decided how to get the darn thing in there anyway!!! Never did an arm I could Not access straight into the breach before!!
    Disassembly would get you access to the chamber from below, with the bolt and trigger group out of the way. Pretty simple how Ruger puts the trigger and bolt in these as a group with 2 pins not unlike the AR platform we all seem to know. If you had any pin gages you could use them from the bottom I am thinking.

    https://www.bevfitchett.us/ruger-mod...sassemble.html
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    Disassembly would get you access to the chamber from below, with the bolt and trigger group out of the way. Pretty simple how Ruger puts the trigger and bolt in these as a group with 2 pins not unlike the AR platform we all seem to know. If you had any pin gages you could use them from the bottom I am thinking.

    https://www.bevfitchett.us/ruger-mod...sassemble.html
    Geeze...Pin Gauges!!! Why I don't remember stuff like that??? I always do stuff the Hard Way!!!!
    Thank You... Now...Gotta get said Pin gauges... what ?? maybe .432, down to?? .429 or , not that far??
    also I had found take-down Instructions...But, Yours are Better!!!!!
    Gotta get with my Machinist buddy to see if he has said Gauges!!!
    Last edited by racepres; 01-31-2023 at 05:08 PM.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by racepres View Post
    Geeze...Pin Gauges!!! Why I don't remember stuff like that??? I always do stuff the Hard Way!!!!
    Thank You... Now...Gotta get said Pin gauges... what ?? maybe .432, down to?? .429 or , not that far??
    also I had found take-down Instructions...But, Yours are Better!!!!!
    Gotta get with my Machinist buddy to see if he has said Gauges!!!
    I suggest .430" to .433" with half thou sizes between, this would be 7 gage pins, get them from Meyer Gage Co. try to get the older ZZ minus class gage pins which are -.0002" and correct for the stuff we do with them. They have a $25 minimum order and I think 7 pins will just make that minimum.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    I suggest .430" to .433" with half thou sizes between, this would be 7 gage pins, get them from Meyer Gage Co. try to get the older ZZ minus class gage pins which are -.0002" and correct for the stuff we do with them. They have a $25 minimum order and I think 7 pins will just make that minimum.
    Oh...I was just gonna go to My friend at the machine Shop!!! Or...Good info if that don't work out!!
    Thanks

  19. #99
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    The Marlins or Ruger 96/44 are likely the stronger ones. The Ruger has a 1:20" twist, so it will better stabilize heavier bullets. I have owned two Rossi M1892s in .45 Colt and have had outstanding performance from both. I cannot imagine a different result from one chambered for .44 Magnum.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
    He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
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    Carpe SCOTCH!

  20. #100
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    I am not a negative Na Bob. I try not to clutter up others dream/s. Just my experience being 44 mag lever owner.
    During the Reagan years I bought a new post 94 Trapper 44. A year or two later I kept asking myself why I bought it? But---Luck would have it I sold it to appreciative co-worker at a much discount price he in-turn traded it for Glock 17 a few years later. Personally I think the 357 would be a better cartridge in a lever rifle than the 44. Big bore? Hard to better a 45 long colt slow moving with decent accuracy. A true thin skin thump-er the colt cartridge is.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check