Socket slug mold. BRILLIANT idea!

[John in WI]

Whoever thought up using sockets for slug molds was a genius. I read that a 12 point, 12mm socket was right for a 20ga. Mine came out to exactly 0.500 point to point, so a little small, but the concept works great.

I'll take a picture of the mold tomorrow, but basically the hole in the socket was filled with a machine screw. Then, using a spring and some washers, and holding the socket with vice grips, you can bang the screw and eject the slug. Tomorrow I'll play around with 13 and 14mm, and some similarly sized English sockets, and try to find something that will work with my wads.

It's a cool idea. The whole project took around an hour, including a trip to the hardware store for a spring. Cool stuff.

[725]

Can't wait to hear how they fly. Good luck.

[relics6165]

Nominal standard bore diameter for a 20 ga is .615", yours may vary somewhat from that.
A 9/16" socket would be .5625,
A 19/32" socket would be .593
A 5/8" socket would be .625,

A 16 MM socket would be .629,
A 15 MM socket would be .590,
or thereabouts.

Looks like a 15 MM socket (or a 19/32" if you could find one) in a shot cup MIGHT? work?

Good luck!

[longbow]

For rifled barrel or smoothbore? You will need an attached tailwad Brenneke style for smoothbore but if the fit into a wad and bore is tight enough they may be okay in a rifled gun..

Y-man was the first I have seen to post about these socket slugs:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ed-12-ga-Slugs

He tried a few variations. He posted a lot here a few years ago. A search will bring up his posts.

Longbow

[stubshaft]

Great Idea! Just added ANOTHER thing to my to-do list!

[John in WI]

For my smooth bore 20ga coach gun. I recently discovered some Brennake reduced recoil HD slugs. They shoot great, but they ain't cheap. I was hoping to cook up a cheap practice round, and when I dissassembled one of the rounds realized it looks just like a socket slug. I was also thinking, as the ones I cast are just a hair over 1/2 ounce, that it would be good to try loading them with buck. 4 size #F and 4 #0 pellets also comes out to 1/2 ounce. That would be a wicked close range round. A half ounce slug and 8 buck pellets. Now, if I could just find anyone who carried 20ga primed hulls! My mold failed yesterday because the machine screw I was using to plug the hole bent from whacking it with a mallet. Today, if I get a moment, I'm going to rebuild it with a larger diameter SS screw, and a shorter but stronger spring. The idea is sound--now it's just tinkering to find the correct diameter. Anyway, it was a fun little project. I just wanted to endorse how well it works. I just smoked the inside of the cheapo Harbor Freight sockets with a cigarette lighter, and the slugs popped right out.

[John in WI]

This one one of the very few Youtube inspired projects that I have done, that actually work as quickly and easily as they do on Youtube. It seriously was a 1 hour thing, to produce 30 beautiful slugs. Seriously--no brainer. Heat the mold, cast the slugs. Done. Can't wait to cast a couple more metric and English sizes and find what would be perfect for my needs.

[BK7saum]

Nominal standard bore diameter for a 20 ga is .615", yours may vary somewhat from that.
A 9/16" socket would be .5625,
A 19/32" socket would be .593
A 5/8" socket would be .625,

A 16 MM socket would be .629,
A 15 MM socket would be .590,
or thereabouts.

Looks like a 15 MM socket (or a 19/32" if you could find one) in a shot cup MIGHT? work?

Good luck!

He will be needing a point to point (diameter) measurement, not the distance across the flats

If a 12 mm socket (0.472" across flats/nominal) dropped a 0.500" slug, a 15mm would probably drop around 0.620 and be over bore diameter. No room for a shot cup.

A 9/16 would be closer to working with a shot cup.

[John in WI]

He will be needing a point to point (diameter) measurement, not the distance across the flats

If a 12 mm socket (0.472" across flats/nominal) dropped a 0.500" slug, a 15mm would probably drop around 0.620 and be over bore diameter. No room for a shot cup.

A 9/16 would be closer to working with a shot cup.

I was thinking that too. I was going to make a range of slugs in metric and English, and then mic-ing them to see what they actually come out to be. It's so easy to assemble the mold, there's no reason not to run through 4 or 5 sizes, see what the diamter and resulting mass is, and go from there.

[John in WI]

For rifled barrel or smoothbore? You will need an attached tailwad Brenneke style for smoothbore but if the fit into a wad and bore is tight enough they may be okay in a rifled gun..

Y-man was the first I have seen to post about these socket slugs:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ed-12-ga-Slugs

He tried a few variations. He posted a lot here a few years ago. A search will bring up his posts.

Longbow

Do you have any thoughts on how Brennake joins the slug and wad base together? I've seen some of the Russian slugs had a kind of wood screw looking thing that you would actually screw them together, but I'm not sure how to cobble that up at home. It would be great if you could just use RTV or JB Weld or something, and glue them together. Although I have no idea if any of that would hold up to the brutal forces involved when you pull the trigger. That's a hell of a lot of pressure and acceleration to deal with.

[Misery-Whip]

There must be a way to make wads by heating up a plastic water bottle cap, or piece of milk jug and use a dowel to push the cap into a deep socket or drilled hole.

I know a cylinder shape isnt terribly sturdy, but these wads could be filled with hot glue, spray foam, wax, or...?

Heck if kids on youtube can make stuff out of these plastic caps in their mothers oven, we aught to be able to use our pc ovens to make wads. I just watched one of these kids make a SLINGSHOT...probably took him all day, but he wasnt parked in front of a screen.

[longbow]

The Brenneke Classic slug was put together with a screw:



As far as I know the Brenneke Classic slug is still made the same. They also have "modern" slugs with plastic tailwads that insert into the slugs.

Here is a pic of my Brenneke'ized Lee slugm from a modified Lee mould:



Since these are wad slugs I use hot melt glue cast in a form then screw to the slug. Lately I have found that I can cast directly onto the slug but the drive key has to be burred or a screw installed with the head sticking out for the glue to grip or they often do not bond to the slug and come of in flight.

Most of the new style Russian slugs use proprietary "plug in" tailwads. Some Russian slugs use a screw from the nose into the top deck of a brush wad and that seems to work well.

I believe that the key to Brenneke Classic slugs is that they either align the slug and wads in a form when screwed together or they attached oversize wads then shear to suit the slug after assembly. I have found it difficult to keep felt wads accurately aligned at assembly even when punched in jigs and assembled in a jig... things tend to shift and tilt just enough to throw out alignment. If pre-assembled then sheared to final size that should be better. Think cast bullet and what you would reject if not perfectly cast. Might not be quite that critical for smoothbore shotgun but it really doesn't take much error to ruin accuracy.

Anyway, I digress.

A solid slug isn't going to be accurate from a smoothbore unless it is drag stabilized so a tailwad is a must. If hollow base and weight forward enough like a Foster slug it should work from smoothbore. Fit to bore has to be tight as well. Any rattle fit will give poor accuracy.

If solid and tight enough fit into wad/bore the lead slug should shoot okay from a rifled barrel. With the multi point surface it may not grip rifling well. Testing will tell you. If you get keyholes or poor accuracy then fit is likely not good.

Just my thoughts.

Longbow

[John in WI]

The Brenneke Classic slug was put together with a screw:



As far as I know the Brenneke Classic slug is still made the same. They also have "modern" slugs with plastic tailwads that insert into the slugs.

Here is a pic of my Brenneke'ized Lee slugm from a modified Lee mould:



Since these are wad slugs I use hot melt glue cast in a form then screw to the slug. Lately I have found that I can cast directly onto the slug but the drive key has to be burred or a screw installed with the head sticking out for the glue to grip or they often do not bond to the slug and come of in flight.

Most of the new style Russian slugs use proprietary "plug in" tailwads. Some Russian slugs use a screw from the nose into the top deck of a brush wad and that seems to work well.

I believe that the key to Brenneke Classic slugs is that they either align the slug and wads in a form when screwed together or they attached oversize wads then shear to suit the slug after assembly. I have found it difficult to keep felt wads accurately aligned at assembly even when punched in jigs and assembled in a jig... things tend to shift and tilt just enough to throw out alignment. If pre-assembled then sheared to final size that should be better. Think cast bullet and what you would reject if not perfectly cast. Might not be quite that critical for smoothbore shotgun but it really doesn't take much error to ruin accuracy.

Anyway, I digress.

A solid slug isn't going to be accurate from a smoothbore unless it is drag stabilized so a tailwad is a must. If hollow base and weight forward enough like a Foster slug it should work from smoothbore. Fit to bore has to be tight as well. Any rattle fit will give poor accuracy.

If solid and tight enough fit into wad/bore the lead slug should shoot okay from a rifled barrel. With the multi point surface it may not grip rifling well. Testing will tell you. If you get keyholes or poor accuracy then fit is likely not good.

Just my thoughts.

Longbow

That's a really interesting modification. I wish there were more choices available in 20ga. I just JB Welded some of my socket slugs into wads. I'm hoping that they can stay together in flight. I think you're right--the slug is acting something like a shuttle-cock with a heavy end and a light, high drag end.

I'm having a problem with my slug-casting approach. I was using a machine screw installed through the socket to plug the end, and a spring to hold it tight against the hole. Then, after the slug cooled, I would bang it with a wooden block to eject the slug. I realized why they mold got screwed up--after several slugs, the spring is becoming annealed so when you bang it, it doesn't recoil anymore. I'm going to have to think of a non-spring method to hold it tight. I'm not sure the slugs would fall free of the mold without actually pushing them out. I might be wrong--maybe there would be enough shrinkage that they could fall free on their own. Still, I like the shape and I certainly like the cost of these things. It will be fun to try and work out method for them.

[longbow]

I make what I call push out moulds that are similar to the old Ideal Cylindrical Molds:



Mine are a little beefier though. I use 1 1/2" diameter round bar:





They can be nose pour with an insert or base pour. The mould pics are of a mould for an HP 12 ga. wad slug.

While some people have made these without an ejector pin I use the HP pin, HB pin or simply an ejector pin to push the boolit out of the mould. Yes, there is enough shrinkage that they will fall free with a tap or two but I have had them stick so always include an ejector pin.

I've made these in .30 cal., .44 cal., 20 ga, and 12 ga. full bore and wad slug so far. They are pretty easy to make and work well. For boolits I have used paper patch designs casting a little over bore diameter then patched to groove diameter, full groove diameter smooth designs tumble lubed, and slightly undersize smooth boolits that get knurled up to groove diameter then tumble lubed. Most shotgun slug designs I have made are wad slugs but I also have 3 bore diameter designs. I have added tailwads Brenneke style to some and those are working pretty well.

The socket mould may work okay but without a sprue plate you won't get consistent weight or flat base. Maybe not too important for close range work but round balls are a better projectile I think and round ball moulds aren't terribly hard to make. My opinion anyway.

Good luck!

Longbow

[GregLaROCHE]

I would buy a Lee mold if available. Probably wouldn’t cost much more than buying a single socket today.

[sukivel]

I was wondering what greg stated, but is the brennake style better or more accurate than the wad style?


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[centershot]

I was wondering what greg stated, but is the brennake style better or more accurate than the wad style?


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If we're talking Foster-type slugs, then I would say yes. The Brenneke slug has proven itself to be accurate and deadly over the last 100 years or so. But, with a little patience and experimentation, a round ball can be made to equal or exceed the accuracy of the best Foster designs. This picture was a target I shot at 50 yards, 5 shots, using a 0.662" round ball in a "sabot" type load, muzzle velocity was 1300 fps. It kills deer nicely!

Attachment 309231

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Has anyone actually fired any of these?
If so, what were the results?

[longbow]

If you are meaning the socket slugs then yes, Y-Man has shot quite a few but with mixed results IIRC. Check the link I attached in post #4 and you can read some of his results. He posted on the firearms blog and here quite a bit a few years ago. A search will bring up his posts. He has tried the socket slugs, round balls, Lyman Sabot slugs, Lee slugs and some other slugs from homemade moulds.

I can't remember but I think he went through the cycle and back to socket slugs getting reasonable results from a rifled gun.

However, as centershot says, a round ball can provide very good accuracy to at least 50 yards and better than most Foster slugs I have tried. Groups do start to open up pretty fast much past about 60 to 70 yards though. That is where a well stabilized Foster or Brenneke style slug should perform better... at least from smoothbore.

If the socket slug is a good fit to wad/bore and they are consistent then no reason they shouldn't shoot well from a rifled barrel. My thought though is that for rifled barrel to work well you need to translate the rotation through the wad to slug and with the socket "points" bore/rifling contact may be iffy due to bore lands and grooves and spaces between points on the slug. Certainly doesn't hurt to try though.

Longbow

[John in WI]

Longbow, do you have any thoughts on how long the tail/drag section on one of your slugs needs to be to provide adequate stabilization? yours appear to be about the same length as the slug itself?
I'm curious, because I have a bunch of 28ga felt, fiber, and card disks that I could potentially laminate up to make a tail section for the slugs. Alternatively I can try to make a mold like yours and cast something from hot glue. Another project where the fiance can say "*** are you doing now?!" "Oh nothing honey. Just using your craft supplies to manufacture my own ammo...."