Another link for adding Johnson's Paste Wax to your ingredients and making 45/45/10: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-amp-Mess-Free You can also buy 45/45/10 from White Label Lubes. Works a little better for me than BLL - YMMV.
Another link for adding Johnson's Paste Wax to your ingredients and making 45/45/10: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-amp-Mess-Free You can also buy 45/45/10 from White Label Lubes. Works a little better for me than BLL - YMMV.
WWJMBD?
In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.
I've never tried Xlox. But Lee Liquid Alox dries all by itself. Eventually. My first bottle dried up completely solid, in the bottle. I cut it out, and it looks like a piece of hard rubber or plastic.
I took some of that stuff, hard as a hockey puck, and melted it down with beeswax. It dries solid and nontacky as soon as it cools. But with the wax added, you can easily cut chunks out of it with a knife.
I put a little chunk on a batch of bullets in a metal tin, and heat it up with a heat gun. When it starts to melt, start tumbling. Takes just a few minutes. As soon as it cools, they're ready to load. If you reserve the same container for tumble lubing, it takes only a very small amount. I've never even bought LLA. Still using the 2 free bottles I got with Lee bullet sizers, over a decade ago.
Agreed... alox WILL eventually cure to a dry solid. I have had toi thin it when it gets hard or starts to get hard in the bottle.. sometimes i add paste wax.. etc.. or other lubes.. beeswax.. mc wax.. etc.. then heat in a double boiler to apply.. and it dries quickly as it cools.
Wasn’t Lundmark liquid floor wax substituted for Johnson’s liquid wax in the BLL formula after the Johnsons liquid wax was discontinued ?
Never trade luck for skill.
That's why you're 'posed to heat the liquid alox until all the original solvent in there is gone, before you add the paste wax, or w/e else you're using. That's why it dries so fast, compared to the original formula.
When I made up my next batch lube, I used old dried up Alox that was still pasty rather than hockey puck hard. The bullets would still be slightly tacky after they cooled, because w/e solvent they put in there evaporates really slowly.
I suspect there's little that is special about paste wax. It's surely the fast drying solvent in there that makes it work!?
Using only heat and no solvents, I have found I can screw with the mix in the middle of tumbling. If the lube in the grooves won't fill out and looks like a little bit of crumbly dirt in the bottom of the groove on close inspection, it's from too much Alox and not enough wax.
I will tilt the bullets to one side of the tin to leave a clear spot in the tin. Then add a little chip of wax in the empty spot and heat it until it melts and tumble some more. This fills the grooves more completely and smoothly.
Beeswax has a higher melting point than paraffin. But paraffin is a little slicker when dried. I have never added anything else to my alox.
When you get the right amount of lube in the pan/tin with the right ratio of wax:alox, the lube grooves fill up >75% full, and smooth, and the rest of the bullet is clean and shiny, getting only a very thin coat. Too much lube in the tin, and some lube starts to randomly stick on the nose/base. And even more, you get lube sticking on the sides of the bullet and making them clump together and they look like pieces of rusted bolt dug out of the mud. The best solution for this is to just add more bullets. But if those were the last, then I'll just tilt the tin to get some of the excess lube to stick up higher on the sides of the container, or use a cloth to wipe some of the lube out of the pan after heating it.
They always come out right and pretty, too, if you keep your base ingredients on hand. And a heat gun. And they're dry and ready to load in a minute.
I've never tried lubing regular groove bullets. I heard it works, too. But my TL bullets look like regular lubed bullets, only with smaller grooves. I'll have to try adding some color to the lube, one of these days.
Last edited by gloob; 01-21-2023 at 05:09 PM.
Where does one find Alox these days? I thought it was long gone
I got myself curious enough to try tumble lubing a regular groove bullet, today.
I have one such mold in 40. I bought it once upon a time, after reading TL would work fine. And I tried it, but that was with regular LLA, right out of the bottle. It didn't work great for me. As I recall, the first shot left so much fouling it blocked 30% of the bore on my pistol. But there could have been other factors, too.
Nope. I still can't get TL to fill the groove. There's just a tiny bit that gets in there. Maybe that is good enough, but it's a stark difference from a TL bullet.
To answer the original question - Yes, I have run an alox tumble lubed, plain based bullet, through a rifle at speeds close to what you have listed.
A Lyman 375248 loaded unsized in a 38-55 case. The rifle was a Winchester '94 "Boy Scouts of America" commemorative, that had been rebored to 38-55. The powder charge I chose was supposed to only run it up to about 1450 fps. At the range, the chronograph showed just over 1700 fps (possibly due to the 28" barrel). After 4 rounds, the bore was visibly partially blocked by the leading that was occurring near the chamber end, at those velocities. A bore brush got stuck trying to clean all the lead out, and required help to remove from the barrel.
All that to say, go ahead if you like, but there's a good chance that you will be cleaning a LOT of lead out of your bore!
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
- Henry S. Haskins in “Meditations in Wall Street”
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." ...Unknown
I used a brass tube to clean the lead out my pistol bore. A 28" barrel full of that much lead must have been interesting!
You know, come to think of it, I always TL my rifle bullets twice. Before and after checking and sizing. And it's the second coat that fills the TL grooves so nicely. I wonder if the sizing makes the edges of the grooves sharper, so they "scrape" in the lube?
I tumble lube my unsized 9mm bullets, and the TL grooves fill up, but not as nicely as my rifle bullets.
I didn't have a 40 sizer when I first tried to TL the regular grooved bullets. I'll have to run them through my sizer and see if that doesn't help.
If it doesn't help, my next project might be something to do with these bullets. PB checks, PC, or most likely the old cake cutter.
TL or LLA works good for me around 1600 FPS in my 30-30 170 grs Lee bullet w/ gas check. I like 4227. So easy. Shoots good in my gun.
I just looked. Amazon has Johnson’s Paste Wax in stock. 81.36 per one pound container!!!
Gulp!!!!!!
It can be had with free shipping!
Facta non verba
I’ve been luckier. I go a lot further than 50/50. I dumped three or four bottles of Alox I got with sizer dies into a mason jar, then rinsed the bottles with mineral spirits. Then I mixed probably 3-4 bottles more mineral spirits with it. All of the spirits evaporate anyways, so I didn’t measure.
I had to shake it like a crying baby forever to get it all mixed, but I’ve been using it ever since.
It’s super thin and runny and easy to apply. It sure beats blowing out a neck vein trying to squeeze a drop of thick goopy straight Alox through that little nozzle. It dries in a couple hours in a Jacksonville, Florida garage.
I shoot a lot of MP359640’s or 358156’s from a 16” Marlin using this method, speed was 1604 on the target below.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You can also use lighter fluid to thin out the Alox , I use it when I do buckshot for my handguns and rifles light loads. I put it in a small bottle and mix then after I size my buck shot the size I want I put them in the bottle to coat then after put them on a used 22lr tray that have the holes in the plastic and then close the bottle , if it drys out I do not worry about , I just add more lighter fluid to thin it out.
Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA
Mineral spirits with Aloe makes it dry harder. No sticky ness. The success of aloe is using a little. Too much is gummy, and never dies. Too much doesn't improve the lubrication.
I have switched to 45-45-10 lube.
Shiloh
Je suis Charlie
"A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves."
Bertrand de Jouvenel
“Any government that does not trust its citizens with firearms is either a tyranny, or planning to become one.” – Joseph P. Martino
“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert , in five years there would be a shortage of sand.” – Milton Friedman
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns; why should we let them have ideas?" - J. Stalin
Why is thinner better? I thought it was supposed to seal the bore.
It sounds easy but more time consuming- 3 days for 3 coats.
I just use a little less alox and a little more shaking if I want a thinner coat.
My 50% is half a coat. Shoots well, too.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |