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Thread: Question about weighing brass and bullets

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Question about weighing brass and bullets

    Hello,
    Want to do a little experimenting. To those who weigh their cast bullets and brass what is your cut-off for non use? +or- how many grains? I look forward to hearing from you.

    Thanks!!!
    Last edited by M1fuzz; 01-10-2023 at 12:25 AM. Reason: Spelling error

  2. #2
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    That depends on application. For 1,000 BPCR I am very picky. For cowboy action if it's safe it gets fired.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    That depends on application. For 1,000 BPCR I am very picky. For cowboy action if it's safe it gets fired.
    Got it. I am shooting old military rifles at 100, 200, and 300 yards. So, I am guessing somewhere in between your requirements. I get where you are coming from w/ the 1,000 yard shooting. Every little thing matters in that sport.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    For BPCR I weigh my boolits to +/- 0.1gn before lubrication. It certainly pays off in shooting 100 yd groups with my Sharps 45/70



    When considering weighing boolits when I'm casting I make 10 from pure lead and weigh them. When I settle on an alloy I add tin and antimony to a pot of pure lead until a cast boolit weight exactely as before.

    As an example a 303 boolit in pure lead weighs 204.8gn, a cast boolit from alloy 192.6gn. To duplicate that alloy add elements which will make a cast boolit lighter until it weighs 192.6gns.
    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

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    Last edited by M-Tecs; 01-12-2023 at 02:57 AM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Half Dog's Avatar
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    I group the different weights and shoot them together.
    The sooner I fall behind...the more time I have to catch up with

  7. #7
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    Given this is a sub forum for military rifles I'd venture that unless you are shooting CBA matches or NRA matches weighing bullets and cases is a waste of time let alone an exercise in frustration. This because 99% of military rifles will never be able to use match level weight sorting of cases or bullets as they have neither the sights nor the inherent accuracy to utilize any benefits of such techniques. Just keep the cases separated by headstamp if you want to and visually cull bullets out that have a visible defect.

    If you are match shooting then sort the cases by headstamp and do a search for my posts on how to properly weight sort cast bullets.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
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    Some military rifles will shoot, some will not shoot, same as the shooters themselves. It is up to you to cull your guns for mach shooting.

    If you want to shoot in matches and you are capable, then once you learn the basics, 90% of actual match shooting becomes the mental aspect. Within that mental aspect you never want any doubt about your ammunition, creeping into the process. Most real good shooters do everything they can to create absolute confidence in their ammunition, and their gun way before the match.

    Where does the creation of the accurate ammunition end, exactly where and when you are satisfied that you have done everything you can do, in the preparation, for match accuracy. Now it is not about hitting the big target, it is the shoot off that can come, just one round counts in the end. So how important is one round, every single round?
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapier View Post
    Some military rifles will shoot, some will not shoot, same as the shooters themselves. It is up to you to cull your guns for mach shooting.

    If you want to shoot in matches and you are capable, then once you learn the basics, 90% of actual match shooting becomes the mental aspect. Within that mental aspect you never want any doubt about your ammunition, creeping into the process. Most real good shooters do everything they can to create absolute confidence in their ammunition, and their gun way before the match.

    Where does the creation of the accurate ammunition end, exactly where and when you are satisfied that you have done everything you can do, in the preparation, for match accuracy. Now it is not about hitting the big target, it is the shoot off that can come, just one round counts in the end. So how important is one round, every single round?
    Ask Larry as he knows ,even in the most serious match's (sniper)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1fuzz View Post
    Hello,
    Want to do a little experimenting. To those who weigh their cast bullets and brass what is your cut-off for non use? +or- how many grains? I look forward to hearing from you.

    Thanks!!!
    I weigh all bullets and brass to .01 gr and sort to their weight and shoot in groups by only that weight.
    Any weight out of the groups, I use for practice. For competition, every round in the boxes weigh exactly the same. A lot has to do with volume inside of brass, clean - dirty, so all have the same size for combustion.

  11. #11
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    I keep rifle brass separate by head stamps, boolits separate in batches from a run with the pot.
    If the boolits look good as they drop, I keep 'em.

    If there is one or two percent difference in their weights- I figure it would make a difference in how high they hit.
    But for a full grain or even two on a 170 or 190 gr., it'd probably be barely an inch at 100 yards.
    Boolits that are less than one percent of being the same weight--
    I don't have such a rifle, and I'm not a good enough shot to tell the difference.


    Handgun boolits & brass all go in together.
    I keep the loaded ammo separate by loadings with the same powder charge.

    I've tried all that hair splitting and head scratching over handgun ammo.
    At 25 yards with not so tricked out pistols- I couldn't tell any difference.
    If one group was 2" and another was 3" or 3 1/2-- I'm OK with them.
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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    When I first started reloading back in the 70's.
    I tried weighing all the bullets and cases , and even matched them up by checking the CC capacity of the cases.
    It was a lot of work and just didn't seem worth it for the rifles and handguns I was shooting.
    I have seen benchrest shooters do this.
    Again , it didn't make that much difference except for really long ranges.
    But I do match up cases by Head stamps and number of times they have been reloaded.
    That saves a lot of time and effort for the average shooter.
    But if you are going for Olympic Accuracy, there is other things you can do like Totally matching the case and Boolit weights and making all the case necks consistant by sizing them and reaming them to match perfect.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    But if you are going for Olympic Accuracy,
    Something I've seen more than once when somebody has put a rifle on the bench that is worth more than my truck:

    They'll bring premeasured vials of powder, shoot and reload the same case for their group.
    It is also marked so it lays in the chamber the same way each time.

    I always thought that was a little bit more tedious than I was willing to do.
    But they produced a lot of one hole groups too.
    In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
    In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.


    OK People. Enough of this idle chit-chat.
    This ain't your Grandma's sewing circle.
    EVERYONE!
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    Something I've seen more than once when somebody has put a rifle on the bench that is worth more than my truck:

    They'll bring premeasured vials of powder, shoot and reload the same case for their group.
    It is also marked so it lays in the chamber the same way each time.

    I always thought that was a little bit more tedious than I was willing to do.
    But they produced a lot of one hole groups too.
    That’s pretty cool. I would never want to do that, but still cool to see someone so dedicated and succeeding.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLAHUT View Post
    I weigh all bullets and brass to .01 gr and sort to their weight and shoot in groups by only that weight.
    Any weight out of the groups, I use for practice. For competition, every round in the boxes weigh exactly the same. A lot has to do with volume inside of brass, clean - dirty, so all have the same size for combustion.
    Interesting. What scale are you using that has 100th of a grain resolution?
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1fuzz View Post
    Got it. I am shooting old military rifles at 100, 200, and 300 yards. So, I am guessing somewhere in between your requirements. I get where you are coming from w/ the 1,000 yard shooting. Every little thing matters in that sport.
    For your application plus or minus a grain will not be noticeable. Just for reference the POI difference between a 530 grain and a 535 grain 45 cal. bullet at yards is 0.7 of an inch elevation at 500 yards at typical BPCR velocities.

    Spending your time shooting will be much more beneficial than weighing bullets, brass and primers. Until you get to the point that the national level shooters are looking over their shoulder at you being OCD will not be a benefit and if it takes away trigger time it may be a hindrance.

    Some light reading on the subject.

    https://blog.ammolytics.com/2020-01-...-part-one.html

    https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=549685

    https://www.bisonops.com/2021/03/18/...e-case-volume/

    https://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...idges.3999238/
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 01-13-2023 at 02:01 AM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    Interesting. What scale are you using that has 100th of a grain resolution?
    Lyman 266673. Only problem with this scale is it maxes out at 308 grains. It measures in grams, grains, carats and I think something else but can't recall it offhand.



    Lee 250 gr .45 RF



    Lyman 323470

    Last edited by Dutchman; 01-12-2023 at 12:26 PM.

  18. #18
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    What brand is that? Most of the scales of that type are 0.02 grain readout resolution not 0.01 grain. Normally actual scale accuracy tolerance is plus or minus the readout resolution.

    With actual check weights the plus or minus 0.02 of a grain scale tolerance is highly questionable unless they are produced at ISO approved/certified facilities. Those tend to start at about $300.

    I won a cheap digital caliper that readouts out to 0.0001". When calibrated with standards it's more like plus or minus 0.001"

    Like the cheap digital calipers the $20 dollar Amazon and eBay scales tend not to do well when actually calibrated to ISO standards.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 01-13-2023 at 02:44 AM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I once had this 06' that earned the tag "Prima Donna" .

    I would say that regardless of which forum this is in , there are ways to work the rules and every advantage be taken by a competition driven person .

    Back to line 1 on a .5 gn of case weight that 06' would toss at 1.5 gr it would be a new group 12" away . Just .3 gr of IMR 4350 was the difference between .690 5 overlapping holes and 1.6" with 2 torn between . Because it was a hunter and all of the bullets that I did weigh varied less than .05 gr O/U I didn't push that frontier. (Before cast enlightenment) .

    I owned anther same make and model in 308 that rifle shot whatever fell in the action inside 2.5" within 4.5" of POH Herters branded PPU , FC ,RP , 1974 Argentine surplus . It literally didn't matter . As long as it was the same Head Stamp and the bullet was under 175 gr it shot , and loading .75 inch load was a breeze .

    I had and 03A3 11/43 Rem , for 10 yr I'd load 2 work ups about every 6 months sometimes 4-6 different sets of components I dinked with forend pressure, free float , screw tension , bedding...... Yeah . Firewood and scrap metal were about the only words I can use to describe anything about even remedially positive about that relationship. The final exchange did buy a near new pocket gun so there's that and I almost doubled my money on it so there's that I guess .

    It seems that I've owned one of every class , the wonder rifle , the OMG that was too easy a fix (now that I know what it needed) , and the dimensionally perfect possessed never going to shoot how did it clear QC even in the desperate days of war PO.......er ..... delightful specimen of craftsmanship.

    I've owned a number of wardogs besides the 03' and some of them were just as colorful and boring .

    To turn a phrase "it matters when it does " . Every variable you remove up front is one you don't have to chase later .
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    What brand is that? Most of the scales of that type are 0.02 grain readout resolution not 0.01 grain. Normally actual scale accuracy tolerance is plus or minus the readout resolution.

    With actual check weights the plus or minus 0.02 of a grain scale tolerance is highly questionable unless they are produced at ISO approved/certified facilities. Those tend to start at about $300.

    I won a cheap digital caliper that readouts out to 0.0001". When calibrated with standards it's more like plus or minus 0.001"

    Like the cheap digital calipers the $20 dollar Amazon and eBay scales tend not to do well when actually calibrated to ISO standards.
    You asked about a scale that reads out to 1/100th of a grain. I provided images of the scale I use that reads out to .01 grain, which is 1/100th of a grain. Beyond that I have no interest in debating the issue further.

    Dutch

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check