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Thread: .338 in. Mag - second to 45-70 for more open deer-elk

  1. #61
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    We have two hy-bred 06 calibers up north there.
    Our 1st was the 375-06 Super caliber ! For us as we already shoot numerous caliber .38 rifles molds were on hand. 270 FNGC PC is great !
    The other is a .338-06. Should do 90% of the Mag version with alot less powder as the 375-06 does.
    We have not yet got it running. Last time north health issues with the in-laws hit and there went the free time.
    But this summer God willing! Start with 230 grainers and work down.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
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  2. #62
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by missionary5155 View Post
    We have two hy-bred 06 calibers up north there.
    Our 1st was the 375-06 Super caliber ! For us as we already shoot numerous caliber .38 rifles molds were on hand. 270 FNGC PC is great !
    The other is a .338-06. Should do 90% of the Mag version with alot less powder as the 375-06 does.
    We have not yet got it running. Last time north health issues with the in-laws hit and there went the free time.
    But this summer God willing! Start with 230 grainers and work down.
    A .338/06 was on my mind last September at a sportsmans flea market, but it was not to be, I was looking for a good action to build on, but a Ruger Hawkeye laminant stock and Nikon 4-12 scope in .338 Win Mag leapt off a table into my arms at a very good price, then the man on the other side of the table pulled out a large box containing dies, ammo, brass, and bullets saying the box went with the rifle and he would not budge on price. I filled his paw in record time with nine Franklins and a Grant. No paper work, no tax, ran to the car and secured my booty in the trunk.

    You're right, the .338 Win Mag runs on premium fuel, and a lot of it! I don't think I'll dump it for a .338/06 though as I'm well set with the Magnum version now in a rifle I really like.
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  3. #63
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithaca Gunner View Post
    A .338/06 was on my mind last September at a sportsmans flea market, but it was not to be, I was looking for a good action to build on, but a Ruger Hawkeye laminant stock and Nikon 4-12 scope in .338 Win Mag leapt off a table into my arms at a very good price, then the man on the other side of the table pulled out a large box containing dies, ammo, brass, and bullets saying the box went with the rifle and he would not budge on price. I filled his paw in record time with nine Franklins and a Grant. No paper work, no tax, ran to the car and secured my booty in the trunk.

    You're right, the .338 Win Mag runs on premium fuel, and a lot of it! I don't think I'll dump it for a .338/06 though as I'm well set with the Magnum version now in a rifle I really like.
    Wow, good score! I would try using faster powders in the .338, not everything requires an elephant load. 'Nother thing. If you decide to replace the scope, those Nikons fetch big bux on Fleabay.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Wow, good score! I would try using faster powders in the .338, not everything requires an elephant load. 'Nother thing. If you decide to replace the scope, those Nikons fetch big bux on Fleabay.
    The guy I bought it from said he didn't think he would be able to sell the rifle that day and would have to take a beati'n at a gun shop on it. I have the little tag from the trigger guard, he had $1,000 on it scratched out and ''$950-FINAL!'' written in. Seeing what they want for Ruger M-77's and Hawkeye's these days, $1,500 would have been a decent price for it and all the stuff that went with it. My guess is, he bought it for a once in a lifetime Alaskan hunt and hadn't used it since. From what he was selling, he wasn't a wheeler-dealer, just a guy selling his excess stuff.

    One of the things I like about the .338 Win Mag is it uses a wide variety of common powders I have in stock anyway from IMR4064 to RE-22 and Accurate Molds has a good selection of molds for plinker loads. The previous year at the same flea market I bought an older Tang safety Ruger M77RS in .308 that's replaced my Winchester M-70FWT. Must be the stock design on the M-70 as I mind the recoil of the little .308 in the Winchester more than the .338 Win Mag, and the Ruger 77RS .308 is like a .22. I've been regretting not bringing home 2 more Rugers from that show, another Hawkeye green laminate/SS varminter in .25/06 and a 77RSI in .243. I had the money, guess i just didn't want to spend it all in one place at one time... Stupid of me, the Ruger M77's and Hawkeye's have become my favorite factory rifles.

    You're right on those Nikon scopes, they sell for more used now than they did when new. It's the first Nikon scope I've owned and I'm pleased with it. I thought of replacing it with a Leupold, but it holds zero on the magnum so I plan to leave it on.
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  5. #65
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Nikons are good scopes, however I think they now handle warranty claims by giving you a gift card for Nikon products. So, you may be replacing it someday anyway.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  6. #66
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    As Charlie Brown would say, ''RATS!''.
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  7. #67
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithaca Gunner View Post
    Here's what I would do, (not suggesting you follow suit, just predicting myself from previous situations if I were currently wanting a .338 Win Mag). We all know the ammo situation, it sucks! It sucks worse for some more than others, a lot of great established cartridges are suffering from just plain not being available right now. Though popular, the .338 Win Mag isn't a cartridge in the lime light nor is it a contender in the ELR game. What it is, is what many consider the most effective killing caliber on animals found in the western hemisphere available in a normal weight sporting rifle with tolerable recoil. While not common, and even rare in some regions, it's still popular enough in about half the country that there's a steady demand for it. It's gonna be back. Knowing this, I would shop for the rifle I wanted and scope to go with it. Pick up what I can now, (dies, bullets, cases, powder, magnum primers) I know, a lot of that's hard to find right now, I'd start a WTB thread in the Swappi'n and Selli'n forum and if I got some offers, I'd take em, even if I didn't have the rifle yet. Last I checked on Guns International, there was no shortage of .338 Win Mag rifles.

    I got lucky, I got the rifle I wanted anyway and the entire package of ammo, brass, scope, bullets, and dies. I wasn't looking for a .338 Win Mag, didn't think I would stumble into one. I was looking for a receiver to make a .338/06 on, but I'm very pleased I found and bought the Hawkeye in the magnum, (with the laminate stock-I hate plastic).

    That's what I would do. All I'm gonna advise you to do is, get a Decellerator pad for what ever magnum you decide on, you'll thank me for that.
    Great thoughts, thanks Ithaca, particularly when I'm not depending on this rifle for right now - irrespective of any order, gathering components and gear over time as they show up, grabbing the right rifle at the right price when it shows up - good. Much appreciated.
    -Paul

  8. #68
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Just wanted to post from another thread, thanks guys. I will be looking out for a .338 in Ruger M77 Hawkeye (not the Alaskan, at least a 24" barrel. Not known to me - though I'm a Ruger fan.), either the A-Bolt (also not known to me. Good to read more on it), X-Bolt Browning, or Weatherby Vanguard (both known to me. I've long considered the Vanguard and owned, and loved, the X-Bolt. Appreciate the 60-degree throw). Much appreciated.
    -Paul

  9. #69
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    It might be wise to buy a set of dies first and place a WTB ad in swappi'n&selli'n for some brass along with some junk .300Win Mag or 7mmRem Mag to practice making .338 Win Mags, (I don't know about you, but I would probably destroy a bunch before getting good results).

    More stuff to think about buying;

    Large Rifle Magnum Primers

    Powder-good thing is you may already have some in stock, .338 WM uses a wide variety, W-760, W-StaBall 6.5, RE-19, RE-22, H4350, H4831. H-380, H-414, IMR4895, IMR4350, IMR4831, IMR4064 just to name some of the more popular powders. It's a hungry cartridge, often using 60-75+grs. of powder.

    Bullets-Wide choice here, I buy Speer 225gr. SBT simply because they're inexpensive and will handle anything short of elk and they're ''usually'' available. Elk on up, I would simply buy the BEST bullet I could, Barns Triple Shock X, Nosler Partitions, Speer Grand Slam...and ignore the cost. (I do plan on buying a mold for cheap plinking)

    Scope-Get a QUALITY scope. One that's going to actually hold up against heavy recoil. So far the Nikon BuckMaster II 4-12 is doing well on my Ruger, but if I were buying new, it probably wouldn't be my first choice. Seems scopes are getting shorter theses days, which means there's LESS wiggle room when it comes to mounting them. Look for a longer scope with at least 3.5'' of eye relief, (most Leupolds offer 4'' which is even better).

    Sling-Shooting N-SSA comp for 25 years, I've developed a deep like for the simple musket sling of the Civil War. They're inexpensive through S&S shooting supply, simple, rugged, and easy to use. (though they can be confusing the first time mounting them)
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  10. #70
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithaca Gunner View Post
    It might be wise to buy a set of dies first and place a WTB ad in swappi'n&selli'n for some brass along with some junk .300Win Mag or 7mmRem Mag to practice making .338 Win Mags, (I don't know about you, but I would probably destroy a bunch before getting good results).

    More stuff to think about buying;

    Large Rifle Magnum Primers

    Powder-good thing is you may already have some in stock, .338 WM uses a wide variety, W-760, W-StaBall 6.5, RE-19, RE-22, H4350, H4831. H-380, H-414, IMR4895, IMR4350, IMR4831, IMR4064 just to name some of the more popular powders. It's a hungry cartridge, often using 60-75+grs. of powder.

    Bullets-Wide choice here, I buy Speer 225gr. SBT simply because they're inexpensive and will handle anything short of elk and they're ''usually'' available. Elk on up, I would simply buy the BEST bullet I could, Barns Triple Shock X, Nosler Partitions, Speer Grand Slam...and ignore the cost. (I do plan on buying a mold for cheap plinking)

    Scope-Get a QUALITY scope. One that's going to actually hold up against heavy recoil. So far the Nikon BuckMaster II 4-12 is doing well on my Ruger, but if I were buying new, it probably wouldn't be my first choice. Seems scopes are getting shorter theses days, which means there's LESS wiggle room when it comes to mounting them. Look for a longer scope with at least 3.5'' of eye relief, (most Leupolds offer 4'' which is even better).

    Sling-Shooting N-SSA comp for 25 years, I've developed a deep like for the simple musket sling of the Civil War. They're inexpensive through S&S shooting supply, simple, rugged, and easy to use. (though they can be confusing the first time mounting them)
    Wow, that's an excellent and helpful post, thanks. It makes great sense.

    On the powder, wasn't aware how wide a choice we had. Funny, just reading yesterday from a guy who said "I used H380 on my last elk load, completely different(better) recoil pulse."

    I'd been looking at the Leu Mark 3HD 4-12 x 42. I've never used anything more than a 3-9 x 40, and really nothing more than my Leu 2.5 x 20 on board the guide gun. Thoughts on this scope?
    -Paul

  11. #71
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    -Paul

  12. #72
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinlever View Post
    Wow, that's an excellent and helpful post, thanks. It makes great sense.

    On the powder, wasn't aware how wide a choice we had. Funny, just reading yesterday from a guy who said "I used H380 on my last elk load, completely different(better) recoil pulse."

    I'd been looking at the Leu Mark 3HD 4-12 x 42. I've never used anything more than a 3-9 x 40, and really nothing more than my Leu 2.5 x 20 on board the guide gun. Thoughts on this scope?
    I'm of the belief that less is more in the woods and most general hunting situations, my ideal pick would be a Leupold VX-3HD 1.5-5x 20mm. When I had a .375H&H I had an old Weaver 2.5x with a heavy German post and wire on it that never failed. The post was too heavy for any precision shooting as it covered a 6'' bull at 100yds, but was ideal for quick shots on game. I still have that old Weaver, (made in the 50's) and it still works and holds zero, though I doubt it's fog proof anymore, if it ever was.

    The Nikon 4-12x was what was on the rifle when I bought it and I like it more than a 3-9x, I also have a Burris 4-12x ''Mini'' on my M-77RS .308. I plink or target shoot mostly these days and find the little extra power over a 3-9x handy for checking groups. I swear, I used to be fine with a 3-9x, but now a days it seems to take a 12x to see all the bullet holes. 3.5-10x or 4-12x is all I need for groundhog hunting which is most of my hunting these days, warm summer days and a lot of shooting with little walking involved is more my hunting style lately!

    My advice would be to ask some elk hunters or guides on what they use (with success). My opinion is elk are pretty big and even in the open at hunting ranges, a 1.5-5x should enable you to connect in the right spot. A 2-7x I would imagine would be good also, though I've never owned one. On a hunting rifle I like having the option of a wide field of view low power end scope. Even at longer ranges it's harder to follow a moving animal with a scope on high power. For a fixed power scope I like the humble 2.5X best for hunting big game.

    Bear in mind a .338 or .300 Win Mag is a long action and the trend in scopes these days is short scopes, (I guess for rail platforms) that don't fit long actions with traditional rings and mounts the best. I had to order an extension ring from Ruger for my M-77RS to mount the Burris Mini so I didn't have to stretch my neck to see through it correctly. The reason I suggest Leupold is because many of their scopes are still full length/full tube scopes that shouldn't require one or both extension rings. My brother recently scoped a pre-64 M-70 .30/06 with Leupold rings&bases with a new Burris 3-9x scope and ran out of room, it sits so far forward he has to creep up on the stock to see through it correctly. It's useless without extension rings that would then partially block the receiver effecting loading. He hates it! Buy a full size scope.

    Try looking at things in fields on various powers and pick what works for you. For me, less is more and a 1.5-5X would be ideal for any terrain or hunting range. Others may disagree, and something else may work better for them.
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  13. #73
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Hey Ithaca - I'd agree with you, but my timber gun is my 45-70 and I hunt that in any northwoods, brush or swampy area out to 100 - 125 yards or so. For that, I really like the Leu FX II.

    But I'm interested in the .338 bolt for more open terrain, with shots much farther out. Basically the two guns to cover anything I'd ever want to do. I'm used to 3-9X, and have no experience with the higher 12-14X magnification. Just saw it come up on a number of western and African hunt chats. Thanks for the great advice - taken in. One issue is that out here, in the upper Midwest, no one hunts open terrain (except beanfields, and only use 3-9X's, usually) and so any guys with these big magnums tend to just like them - I've not run across more than one or two, I think, who actually hunts with one. I intend to spend a lot more time out west. Miss it.

    Great info. Really appreciate such concrete points and options to think over.
    -Paul

  14. #74
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    Bear in mind, Paul you're going to loose sight of your target, (animal) during recoil and you're going to have to find it again upon recovery. That's where the wider field of view, low power, (less is more) becomes a benefit. Speaking for myself, a .30/06, (about 20-24 foot pounds of recoil) is the maximum recoiling rifle where I stand a chance of not loosing sight of my target during recoil, (add 10-12 foot pounds for a .338).

    3-9x is the most popular variable scope out there, probably out selling all others combined because of it's useful range of power, I have four of them on .223, .308, and .30/06 sporting weight rifles. 4-12x on two sporting weight rifles, .308 and .338. 4-14x on a Weihrauch .22 pellet rifle, (was looking for a 4-12x but the 4-14x was on sale). 5-25x on a heavy target weight .30/06. 4x Weaver on a 10/22. 2.5x Weaver not currently on a rifle.

    If I had a date with an elk two years from now in Wyoming/Montana at 200-400yds. and had everything except the scope...magnification would be about number 3-4 priority. First would be ruggedness and ability to hold zero. Second would be glass/coating quality, gotta be clear and bright in all kinds of light. Third would be either reticle or the power which are both personal choices. Zero at 200yds. you can figure somewhere between 21-22'' of drop at 400 with a .338 Win Mag shooting a 225gr. Nosler Partition at 2,900fps. MV. (about 7-7.5'' drop at 300). What reticle and zoom would I choose? Depends on what's available with the toughest clearest scope I can afford for the date.
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  15. #75
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithaca Gunner View Post
    Bear in mind, Paul you're going to loose sight of your target, (animal) during recoil and you're going to have to find it again upon recovery. That's where the wider field of view, low power, (less is more) becomes a benefit. Speaking for myself, a .30/06, (about 20-24 foot pounds of recoil) is the maximum recoiling rifle where I stand a chance of not loosing sight of my target during recoil, (add 10-12 foot pounds for a .338).

    3-9x is the most popular variable scope out there, probably out selling all others combined because of it's useful range of power, I have four of them on .223, .308, and .30/06 sporting weight rifles. 4-12x on two sporting weight rifles, .308 and .338. 4-14x on a Weihrauch .22 pellet rifle, (was looking for a 4-12x but the 4-14x was on sale). 5-25x on a heavy target weight .30/06. 4x Weaver on a 10/22. 2.5x Weaver not currently on a rifle.

    If I had a date with an elk two years from now in Wyoming/Montana at 200-400yds. and had everything except the scope...magnification would be about number 3-4 priority. First would be ruggedness and ability to hold zero. Second would be glass/coating quality, gotta be clear and bright in all kinds of light. Third would be either reticle or the power which are both personal choices. Zero at 200yds. you can figure somewhere between 21-22'' of drop at 400 with a .338 Win Mag shooting a 225gr. Nosler Partition at 2,900fps. MV. (about 7-7.5'' drop at 300). What reticle and zoom would I choose? Depends on what's available with the toughest clearest scope I can afford for the date.
    That's really helpful. I really appreciate your experience here. I actually try to do just that with my 45-70 - once zeroed I shoot all offhand and from time to time will try to get a volley of 2 or 3 while keeping the sight picture as well as possible. Having the 2.5 is helpful here and I understand now what you mean.

    Thanks for all your time. I've learned a lot.
    Last edited by huntinlever; 01-28-2023 at 07:17 PM.
    -Paul

  16. #76
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    If it were me setting up a .338 for elk hunting, I would get a Leupold scope and mount it so I see crosshairs when I shoulder the rifle. It may take two or three different sets of rings to get it right (charts only help so much).

    As to magnification? 2-7X, 1.5-5X, 1-4X, 3-9X, 4-12X in that order of preference. Or you could go with a straight 4 or 6X, if you can find one anymore.

    As previously stated elk are big, but the hole in the brush you are trying to shoot through isn't. Clarity of glass is more important than magnification.

    Keep in mind the higher magnification variables are going to weigh more than the smaller ones.

    Robert

  17. #77
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    Good post, Robert.
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  18. #78
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Speaking of the Leopold VX-3 1.5-5x20, I have one on my Marlin Glenfield 30 and love it. Yes, a $400.00 scope on a $200.00 rifle!
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  19. #79
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot you guys. I just remembered that I actually had a 2-7 on my former X-Bolt, not a 3-9. I tend to prefer fixed scopes - one less thing to worry about. Though I also know there is a good use for having at least some zoom if you want it, in the field.

    And I'm sure I'm overthinking this. Framing this as a two-year out project is a great way to do it. So - keeping in mind the priorities you guys have laid on regarding optics - any "moderately" priced scopes leap out at you? Always liked Vortex glass for the price. This 2.5X leu has been through a lot and has been a great scope for northwoods stalking. Any thoughts on specific scopes (let's say, $550 and under)?
    -Paul

  20. #80
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    Another fly in your soup, are you sticking with 1'' or thinking about a 30mm tube? Either or?

    Leupold seldom (if ever) discounts their scopes. Sometimes Midway or another big seller will offer something along free with a Leupold, but it's usually on the high end models. Leupold's VX-3HD 1.5-5x 20 is at $500.00, their VX-Freedom 2-7x 33 is $300.00 but it's a short scope-might not work on a long action without extension rings, VX-3HD 2.5-8 36mm is $500.00, VX-3HD 3.5-10x 40mm $500.00 and the rest of their Freedom line $300.00-$400.00. They still make a FX-3 6x 40mm at $450.00. All 1'' tubes. A few 30mm tube scopes at $500.00 line.

    Check out, europtics.com they're in Williamsport, PA. (1-570-368-3920). Big showroom, they deal in top name optics and often run sales and close-outs, also have showroom demo scopes at discount prices. Unlike Midway and others, they have a staff of (at least) somewhat experienced local people to answer the phone. I haven't gone there yet, but they're only an hour away from me. They have some very good Vortex deals in their close-outs. (their site isn't the easiest to navigate though)
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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check