.338 in. Mag - second to 45-70 for more open deer-elk

[FergusonTO35]

338wm;s can be fire formed or necked up from 7mm mags, which are easily found. The Lee bullet and "The Load" of red dot will entertain you all afternoon, and should be good for deer, too.

Thats the only good use for 7mm mag brass I can think of!

[waylonrocks]

"Stock design has a lot to do with it." Very important, that. I love the look and feel of the Ruger 77 stock but they always seem to have more recoil than I would anticipate for the chambering. My son has a Hawkeye in '06 and recoil is rather robust, compared to others in the family. I have a 77 in 257 Roberts but have not shot any other rifles in that chambering for comparison. I have seen a lot of 77s in 338 Win Mag at gunshows and pawn shops over the years so perhaps others have the same reaction. I, too, grew up reading David Petzal, Elmer Keith, and Jim Carmichael and their fondness for the 338. I bought a Browning BBR in 338 when it came out in the mid 1980s and it still gives me great pleasure. Old Elmer was greatly fond of shooting the Speer 275 grain spitzer in his guns and that is the bullet I generally use as well. Perhaps the main draw of the 338 is that everyone else around you will have a 300 mag of some sort, so you can put forth an argument for the superiority of your rifle. A fun debate to have!

[pworley1]

The 338 is a great do all round. If you use both cast and jacketed bullets you can load it for everything from squirrels to elephants. I have a model 70 that I use for jacketed loads and a Number 1 that I use for cast.

[Ithaca Gunner]

"Stock design has a lot to do with it." Very important, that. I love the look and feel of the Ruger 77 stock but they always seem to have more recoil than I would anticipate for the chambering. My son has a Hawkeye in '06 and recoil is rather robust, compared to others in the family. I have a 77 in 257 Roberts but have not shot any other rifles in that chambering for comparison. I have seen a lot of 77s in 338 Win Mag at gunshows and pawn shops over the years so perhaps others have the same reaction. I, too, grew up reading David Petzal, Elmer Keith, and Jim Carmichael and their fondness for the 338. I bought a Browning BBR in 338 when it came out in the mid 1980s and it still gives me great pleasure. Old Elmer was greatly fond of shooting the Speer 275 grain spitzer in his guns and that is the bullet I generally use as well. Perhaps the main draw of the 338 is that everyone else around you will have a 300 mag of some sort, so you can put forth an argument for the superiority of your rifle. A fun debate to have!

FWIW I'd sooner go 20 rounds with my Hawkeye .338 WM than my mid 1990's Winchester FWT .308, (it's the stock) while recoil is much more with the .338 Ruger, the Winchester .308 just plain hurts. Last year I bought a tang safety Ruger 77RS in .308, a few oz. heavier than the Winchester, different stock geometry with normal felt recoil, no problem, the rifle is a pleasure to shoot. I gave the Model 70 to my grandson, he's 21 6'7'' and 225lbs. he can take the beating.

I think the thing that helps on my Hawkeye is the thick, spongy decellerator type recoil pad and wood stock, (laminated). More than half of the used M-77MkII and Hawkeye rifles I see for sale have the plastic stock, I have no idea how they are as to fit and felt recoil, or the M77 tang safety models. My .308 seems okay, a world better than the M-70FWT! Come to think about it, that M-70FWT is the only rifle I've owned that actually hurts me to shoot it. I was much younger when I had a Ruger No.1 in .375H&H with the thin red rubber pad and while recoil was stout, it didn't hurt me.

[huntinlever]

FWIW I'd sooner go 20 rounds with my Hawkeye .338 WM than my mid 1990's Winchester FWT .308, (it's the stock) while recoil is much more with the .338 Ruger, the Winchester .308 just plain hurts. Last year I bought a tang safety Ruger 77RS in .308, a few oz. heavier than the Winchester, different stock geometry with normal felt recoil, no problem, the rifle is a pleasure to shoot. I gave the Model 70 to my grandson, he's 21 6'7'' and 225lbs. he can take the beating.

I think the thing that helps on my Hawkeye is the thick, spongy decellerator type recoil pad and wood stock, (laminated). More than half of the used M-77MkII and Hawkeye rifles I see for sale have the plastic stock, I have no idea how they are as to fit and felt recoil, or the M77 tang safety models. My .308 seems okay, a world better than the M-70FWT! Come to think about it, that M-70FWT is the only rifle I've owned that actually hurts me to shoot it. I was much younger when I had a Ruger No.1 in .375H&H with the thin red rubber pad and while recoil was stout, it didn't hurt me.

For the Hawkeye, I'm seeing 8 lbs in Hogue rubber, v. 8 1/4 for the laminate, is that correct? This is the only type of synthetic material used in these Haweyes, is that correct?

The laminate sure is beautiful. How does it compare functionally/durability/all-weather to the Hogue?

[Ithaca Gunner]

For the Hawkeye, I'm seeing 8 lbs in Hogue rubber, v. 8 1/4 for the laminate, is that correct? This is the only type of synthetic material used in these Haweyes, is that correct?

The laminate sure is beautiful. How does it compare functionally/durability/all-weather to the Hogue?

I don't think I can answer your questions, Paul. I just got the rifle last September and it's the first Hawkeye I've been formally introduced to. I think what I have is a Hawkeye Predator. Laminate stocks have been known for their bad weather performance and resistance to warping for many years. I like the way the stock feels, it's a classic design with a thinner round fore-end that the checkering wraps around the bottom, and there's enough room under the scope to carry it like a Winchester 94. I don't think Ruger uses a Hogue stock. I think their plastic stocks are solid or nearly so with recessed areas to lighten them. I also believe some were made in blue/walnut also. Just my opinion, the rifle I have is the rifle I like best, (a set of Ruger iron sights are the only thing wanting on my rifle). The SS and laminate stock is just right for me.

When I saw the stock hanging off the man's table at club swap-meet it tingled my interest and when I saw the entire rifle laying there and what all came with it, I dug the cash out, no tax-no paperwork! $950.00 out the door, and the man said he didn't think he would be able to sell, ''that big magnum'' there.

As stated earlier, dies shouldn't be a problem, bullets are available, (I think the 225gr. is the general bullet weight for the caliber, 250gr. for large bears and bison, but the 225gr. should take care of most things). Most common powders from 4350-RE-22 seem to work very well, magnum primers are recommended. Loaded ammo and brass seem to be in short supply right now though, but 7mm Rem Mag. and .300 Win Mag. can be used to make it. I've been on Midway's notification list for W-W brass for several months now, and nothing.

Is the .338 Win Mag too much of a good thing? I don't think so. I think Winchester nailed it when they came out with it in the 1950's. I doubt it would kill a white tail deader than a .30/06 or do anymore meat damage. A denser animal, maybe. I've seen a You-Tube video of a .338Win Mag. killing a large wild hog at around 125yds. and it dropped right there with no further movement, simply straight down without so much as a twitch. For a once in a lifetime hunt I think I would use a Barns copper bullet or a Nosler Partition on elk or larger game. Rifle magazine No.194, March 2001 has a good article on the .338 Win mag. by Brian Pearce, (if you can lay your hands on a copy) with some real life's hunting experience with the cartridge as well as favorite loads and factory ballistics and comparisons of the .338 Win Mag. with the 7mm Rem Mag, .300 Win Mag, and .375 H&H. all with a 200yd. zero out to 500yds. Of course the article being about the .338 Win Mag. the data may have been skewed in it's favor, but it competed very well with the other magnums with one .338 load being the only one of the bunch to retain over 2,000ft-lbs of energy at 500yds. Myself, I try not to shoot game animals over 200yds. The .338 Win Mag. probably isn't the best of it's bore size for long range steel ringing, but it's just fine for hunting anything in this hemisphere, and most game worldwide.

[huntinlever]

I don't think I can answer your questions, Paul. I just got the rifle last September and it's the first Hawkeye I've been formally introduced to. I think what I have is a Hawkeye Predator. Laminate stocks have been known for their bad weather performance and resistance to warping for many years. I like the way the stock feels, it's a classic design with a thinner round fore-end that the checkering wraps around the bottom, and there's enough room under the scope to carry it like a Winchester 94. I don't think Ruger uses a Hogue stock. I think their plastic stocks are solid or nearly so with recessed areas to lighten them. I also believe some were made in blue/walnut also. Just my opinion, the rifle I have is the rifle I like best, (a set of Ruger iron sights are the only thing wanting on my rifle). The SS and laminate stock is just right for me.

When I saw the stock hanging off the man's table at club swap-meet it tingled my interest and when I saw the entire rifle laying there and what all came with it, I dug the cash out, no tax-no paperwork! $950.00 out the door, and the man said he didn't think he would be able to sell, ''that big magnum'' there.

As stated earlier, dies shouldn't be a problem, bullets are available, (I think the 225gr. is the general bullet weight for the caliber, 250gr. for large bears and bison, but the 225gr. should take care of most things). Most common powders from 4350-RE-22 seem to work very well, magnum primers are recommended. Loaded ammo and brass seem to be in short supply right now though, but 7mm Rem Mag. and .300 Win Mag. can be used to make it. I've been on Midway's notification list for W-W brass for several months now, and nothing.

Is the .338 Win Mag too much of a good thing? I don't think so. I think Winchester nailed it when they came out with it in the 1950's. I doubt it would kill a white tail deader than a .30/06 or do anymore meat damage. A denser animal, maybe. I've seen a You-Tube video of a .338Win Mag. killing a large wild hog at around 125yds. and it dropped right there with no further movement, simply straight down without so much as a twitch. For a once in a lifetime hunt I think I would use a Barns copper bullet or a Nosler Partition on elk or larger game. Rifle magazine No.194, March 2001 has a good article on the .338 Win mag. by Brian Pearce, (if you can lay your hands on a copy) with some real life's hunting experience with the cartridge as well as favorite loads and factory ballistics and comparisons of the .338 Win Mag. with the 7mm Rem Mag, .300 Win Mag, and .375 H&H. all with a 200yd. zero out to 500yds. Of course the article being about the .338 Win Mag. the data may have been skewed in it's favor, but it competed very well with the other magnums with one .338 load being the only one of the bunch to retain over 2,000ft-lbs of energy at 500yds. Myself, I try not to shoot game animals over 200yds. The .338 Win Mag. probably isn't the best of it's bore size for long range steel ringing, but it's just fine for hunting anything in this hemisphere, and most game worldwide.

Wow! Thanks for taking the time on this one. That's one beautiful rifle and congrats. The Ruger site is calling it "Black Hogue Overmolded": "Hogue® OverMolded® stock is molded from durable synthetic rubber that provides a soft, recoil-absorbing feel without affecting accuracy." I think it's laid over a fiberglass core. I've felt one, or at least I think I have, and I liked the feel though have to admit I prefer wood by far.

Lots to consider. Great info and thanks again.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Wow! Thanks for taking the time on this one. That's one beautiful rifle and congrats. The Ruger site is calling it "Black Hogue Overmolded": "Hogue® OverMolded® stock is molded from durable synthetic rubber that provides a soft, recoil-absorbing feel without affecting accuracy." I think it's laid over a fiberglass core. I've felt one, or at least I think I have, and I liked the feel though have to admit I prefer wood by far.

Lots to consider. Great info and thanks again.

Some years ago I bought a Houge over molded stock for a 10/22 and didn't like it at all. It was hollow plastic with a rubber coating on it, it impressed me as cheap, very cheap. The stocks I've seen on M77MkII and Hawkeyes look to be solid plastic with removable rubber inserts at the grip and fore-end.

[huntinlever]

OK, thanks. I've just never gotten used to synthetic stocks, at least not the ones I've shot and the one I owned - they have felt too light, too insubstantial overall to me. I'm not sure what I had in my hands that I'm referring to except to say there was some "squeeze" on the stock and the rifle was overall heavier, better balanced and just felt "stronger."

I had both a Winchester 70 (synthetic) and Browning X-Bolt medallion (wood) in 30-06. Sold both. The Winchester felt wrong per above to me. I really regret selling the Browning. For this "mountain" rifle, I'd love a rugged-weather rifle with some heft to it, your laminated sounds perfect.

I've got some pretty substantial medical issues. Still, at 6' 2" and 225, I don't really mind recoil (though I am getting used to it, and remembering proper shooting technique, all over again, it seems - years away), and I don't mind lugging around a heavier rifle. Whether .300-.338, the idea of carrying a light rifle in fact is something I'd rather not do.

[Ithaca Gunner]

The only synthetic stock I ever liked is the Summit Technologies stock on my heavy .308 built on a Remington 700 short action with a Hart No.7 barrel. The stock is kevlar with an aluminum skeleton and solid as marble.

I wouldn't settle for anything less than a 24'' barrel on a magnum rifle and I wouldn't kick about a 25-26'', I would prefer a 25'' on any full length rifle cartridge or magnum, it seems that extra inch isn't noticed over a 24'' like a 26'' is. I do like the Ruger M77 Hawkeye. They designed and executed an almost perfect sporting rifle. It's a combination of 98 Mauser and pre-64 Winchester M-70 actions with Ruger's own safety design. It's a three position, but mounted on the receiver rather than the bolt. I'm sure it's a cost cutting feature and makes little difference other than disassembling the bolt, you have to put a pin punch in a hole to keep it cocked for reassembly. No problem, I still like it and it's positioned very close the same as a M-70 safety. For some reason I can't really get used to the sliding tang safety on my M-77RS, my mind doesn't wrap around the fact that someone put a safety directly behind the bolt. I don't know if the original owner had anything done to the trigger or not, but it's crisp and nice for a hunting rifle. As I said in earlier posts, Ruger got the stock right. It's slimmer than the earlier M-77's, ( I can hook my thumb under the scope and carry it like a lever action) rounded on the bottom, the checkering wraps all the way around, and the stock just feels right to me. The only thing it lacks that I'd like to have is iron sights, I just may call Ruger and see if they'll sell me a set! The thick spongy pad on it does wonders with the recoil generated from the .338 Mag. It doesn't really help the fact that it wants to jump when shooting at a bench though, you have to hold on to the fore-stock. And a scope with plenty of eye relief is a must too, 4'' on most Leupolds, I'm not sure what the Nikon is, but it seems okay. Over-all, I have to say that the Hawkeye is my favorite sporting rifle. I'm kinda wishing I had bought it's brother at the same show, a SS heavy barrel Hawkeye green laminate Varmint rifle in .25/06, no scope, no extras, $1,250. There's another show/sale at a different club in April, maybe the guy still has it and will be there...

I forgot to mention, the floor plate release on the Hawkeye is very unlikely to open by itself or by accident, it's well placed and takes a conscious effort to open. Also they laser engraved the Ruger eagle on the bottom which is a nice touch as is the grip cap with a white eagle inset.

Accuracy seems what I would expect so far. I only shot my handloads in it, using the original owner's data and got 100yd. groups just over an inch. My brother didn't do as well, he shot a three shot group that went about two inches and to the left. I do want to get a mold from Accurate Molds and try some ''pleasure'' shooting with it.

[FergusonTO35]

On the topic of bolt action safeties, I love the tang safeties on my Savage Axis and Ruger American. I'm used to hunting with exposed hammers so using my thumb to make the rifle ready to fire is natural to me

[Ithaca Gunner]

On the topic of bolt action safeties, I love the tang safeties on my Savage Axis and Ruger American. I'm used to hunting with exposed hammers so using my thumb to make the rifle ready to fire is natural to me

I know, common sense and logic say that's an ideal place for the safety, but I'm so used to having them on or near the bolt shroud or on the right side that a tang safety is a little alien to me and takes a deliberate thought to react to it.

[Rapier]

Bought a butchered M-70 Classic in 338 WM just for the action. Ended up building a pre Savage switch barrel out of it, 338 WM and 7mm RM. Made up a nice build with two scopes and QC Warne mounts. The 338 WM is more than adequate for SE hunting. The 7mm is strictly for long distances like peanut fields.
This is the switch barrel.

[FergusonTO35]

Yes indeed. On shotguns and rimfires I'm used to it being on the trigger guard.

[Bigslug]

My pals that seriously chase elk are into the large capacity boomers - the .338 RUM for one of them who plays at pretty crazy distances. Certainly no flies on the .338 Win. My own inclination for a dedicated elk gun would be toward the greater mass of the .338's over the "fast .30-06" aspect of the .300 magnums. Elk skeletons are not flimsy.

My feeling would be to load your .338 for elk, and if a deer happens to walk in front of it, fine. That said, I built up a .30-06 with the intent of it doing double duty for deer and elk, and the barrel length (24") and optic (4.5-14x50) package I ended up with was a bit overkill for the deer hunting I ended up doing considerably more of. It may be a case of needing a separate putter, driver, and sand wedge.

[huntinlever]

My pals that seriously chase elk are into the large capacity boomers - the .338 RUM for one of them who plays at pretty crazy distances. Certainly no flies on the .338 Win. My own inclination for a dedicated elk gun would be toward the greater mass of the .338's over the "fast .30-06" aspect of the .300 magnums. Elk skeletons are not flimsy.

My feeling would be to load your .338 for elk, and if a deer happens to walk in front of it, fine. That said, I built up a .30-06 with the intent of it doing double duty for deer and elk, and the barrel length (24") and optic (4.5-14x50) package I ended up with was a bit overkill for the deer hunting I ended up doing considerably more of. It may be a case of needing a separate putter, driver, and sand wedge.

Thanks for the post - I hear your last thought, too.

In just about every way, and that includes some limited range time with both cartridges, my gut strongly tells me .338. I just enjoyed it more and given my 45-70 doesn't bother me, the recoil doesn't really give me too much of a problem in either .300 or .338. I just prefer the latter.

What's holding me back is the seemingly total absence of reloading components, perhaps brass more than others. It might be one thing if I'd been with the cartridge from long ago and had a lot of stock already, but from what I understand manufacturers will only do a couple .338 runs per year. Not certain that's going to change after things calm down to a (new) normal?

I appreciate the posts, all. I can see, too, that with modern bullet design both would do ably well on intended game. Thankfully I have some time to think on this so perhaps by the time I get around to pulling the trigger things might have changed some.

OTOH, now that my load development on the 45-70 is in good shape, and now that I've all but concluded my aperture days are behind me and the 4X is a great woods optic out to 150 yards or so, I'm seeing what I can do within that range, anywhere I intend to hunt.

[FergusonTO35]

7mm and .300 brass is fairly common and supposed to be easily formed into .338, so I wouldn't let a lack of brass stop you. You may find that you can get many loadings out of your brass also. I still have some of my first batch of .30-30 brass from 21 years ago and it's just now getting to the point where I'm discarding some of it due to mouth splits.

[huntinlever]

7mm and .300 brass is fairly common and supposed to be easily formed into .338, so I wouldn't let a lack of brass stop you. You may find that you can get many loadings out of your brass also. I still have some of my first batch of .30-30 brass from 21 years ago and it's just now getting to the point where I'm discarding some of it due to mouth splits.

Thanks Ferguson, to be honest I'd not even thought of that - reforming is totally new to me. Someone (maybe it was you?) advised how easy it is to reform .30-30 to 38-55 and it's been in the back of my mind. Just starting to anneal so that's the first learning curve, but wasn't aware the .338 can be formed from these cases. Thanks.

[FergusonTO35]

No prob. If you decide to go that way, I have a handful of range pick up 7mm and .300 brass you can have, just tell me where to send it!

[Ithaca Gunner]

Here's what I would do, (not suggesting you follow suit, just predicting myself from previous situations if I were currently wanting a .338 Win Mag). We all know the ammo situation, it sucks! It sucks worse for some more than others, a lot of great established cartridges are suffering from just plain not being available right now. Though popular, the .338 Win Mag isn't a cartridge in the lime light nor is it a contender in the ELR game. What it is, is what many consider the most effective killing caliber on animals found in the western hemisphere available in a normal weight sporting rifle with tolerable recoil. While not common, and even rare in some regions, it's still popular enough in about half the country that there's a steady demand for it. It's gonna be back. Knowing this, I would shop for the rifle I wanted and scope to go with it. Pick up what I can now, (dies, bullets, cases, powder, magnum primers) I know, a lot of that's hard to find right now, I'd start a WTB thread in the Swappi'n and Selli'n forum and if I got some offers, I'd take em, even if I didn't have the rifle yet. Last I checked on Guns International, there was no shortage of .338 Win Mag rifles.

I got lucky, I got the rifle I wanted anyway and the entire package of ammo, brass, scope, bullets, and dies. I wasn't looking for a .338 Win Mag, didn't think I would stumble into one. I was looking for a receiver to make a .338/06 on, but I'm very pleased I found and bought the Hawkeye in the magnum, (with the laminate stock-I hate plastic).

That's what I would do. All I'm gonna advise you to do is, get a Decellerator pad for what ever magnum you decide on, you'll thank me for that.