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Thread: .338 in. Mag - second to 45-70 for more open deer-elk

  1. #1
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    .338 in. Mag - second to 45-70 for more open deer-elk

    OK, bit of a leading question as I love the round. Also not sure it goes in this section but I wasn't sure where else to put it. It will be a factory rifle regardless.

    My guide gun is my brush buster on anything in N. America and I've always enjoyed the .338 Win. Mag., when I've shot it. Looking for a second rifle for anything from deer to elk, for longer distances and more open terrain. I will stipulate that I also love the venerable old '06, but I'm considering the .338. Not as much a fan of faster, lighter cartridges e.g., 7 mm.

    Loaded on light side for deer and heavier side for elk, how many of you have your .338 as a multi-species gun?

    Is it extraordinarily hard to find reloading components for it?
    -Paul

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Don't know what it's like where you are, but .338 factory ammo is really rare around here and you're gonna pay around $3.00 a shot for it if not more. Even factory bullets are pretty uncommon. Now, if you cast and reload it shouldn't be a problem. I imagine even a lightly loaded .338 boolit would flatten a deer and do nicely on elk.

    If I was looking for a belted magnum in this class, I would just roll with a .375 H&H. It will do anything the .338 will do and then some. Ammo and components are much easier to find and there are plenty of good choices for molds. My local shop actually has a few boxes of .375 in stock most of the time.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master
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    For long distances, you will be (should be?) shooting jacketed bullets. Just did a quick search on Midway and they have over a dozen types in stock. I doubt getting bullets will be difficult if you shop online. Cases are not easy to find. Ammunition is running $100+ per box and limited availability.

    IMO the .300 Win Mag should be a consideration. It will shoot a bit flatter, and cases and ammunition ($35/box) will be easier to find and more affordable. Dozens of good .30 cal bullets as well.

    My "elk rifle" is a .300 WM. I do not enjoy recoil and put a muzzle brake on it. I hate shooting it as I need ear plugs and muffs to shoot it at the range, but it recoils like a .243. My once in a lifetime elk hunt in Wyoming fell through years ago and it is nearly impossible to get an elk tag in MI so has been, and will remain, a "safe queen". I will be selling it this year as I thin the herd.
    Don Verna


  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    +1 dverna The 300 Win Mag works very well on elk, can be loaded light for fun AND is very easy to find, it is popular throughout the world, miltary uses it for snipers. It can do anything the 30-06 can do and more. In today's world, the 338 Magnum has lost followers due to better bullets like the Nosler Partition, Barnes TTSX, Swift A-frames and others. I have an 8lb Interarms, recoil is umpleasant with 'elk hunting' loads but with lighter bullets or moderate cast loads it is not so bad, even fun and very accurate. My wife carried it for many years, using the same rifle for pronghorn and elk. She didn't worry about trajectory/bullet drop with it at most ranges.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    The 338Win is an excellent all around cartridge for any north American animal. Very popular in AK. I don't use mine much as I have several other choices. My go to is a 300 H&H. I have heavier hitters such as 350 Rem, 338 Win, 358N, 416Rem and 45/70 but the 300 H&H is plenty of round for deer and elk at any reasonable range without the heavy recoil.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I don't hunt elk anymore but used either my 444 or 338 WM when I once did with modern rifles. I used cast in both. My 338 with cast at an MV of about 1700 is minute of 5-gallon paint bucket out to 700 yards with iron sights and my old eyes are fresh in the morning. I have two molds for the 338, the Lee 220 and the NOE 235. Both are plenty accurate but my rifle won't stabilize the Lee boolit below 1650 fps mv but the NOE is stable at 1550 fps mv. IMO with either of those two boolits, a terminal velocity of 950 using a softer alloy is adequate for deer and 1200 for elk. You ballistics tables will tell you how far you can shoot using those standards.

  7. #7
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    Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    I sold my .338 twenty years ago when I built my first .35 Whelen, I figured they were comparable just the .338 had more range potential and I am not one to shoot at unwounded game at a quarter mile.

    Funny thing is that to me it seems the .338 Win Mag recoils less than any of the .300 Win Mags I have shot. Why I don't know, but the .338 has never been uncomfortable for me to shoot. I never loaded cast in mine, nor in any .300 either.

    Robert

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Can .338 cases be easily formed from .300's or other belted magnums? If so, then that opens up a much larger source of brass.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  9. #9
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    The 300 Win Mag will easily handle just about any situation in the lower 48. Brass and bullets are readily available, but if you are planning on heading to Alaska or perhaps a safari to Africa by all means choose the 338 or even better the 340 Weatherby. I don't particularly care for a lot of recoil any more, so most of my hunting these days are done with either the 270 Win or the 30-06. I shoot cast or paper patched boolits in both with good results, but if was a hunt of a lifetime I would choose a proper j-word.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk42gunner View Post
    I sold my .338 twenty years ago when I built my first .35 Whelen, I figured they were comparable just the .338 had more range potential and I am not one to shoot at unwounded game at a quarter mile.

    Funny thing is that to me it seems the .338 Win Mag recoils less than any of the .300 Win Mags I have shot. Why I don't know, but the .338 has never been uncomfortable for me to shoot. I never loaded cast in mine, nor in any .300 either.

    Robert
    First, thank you everybody. It has been between the .300 WM and .338 WM for me for quite awhile, and this gives some further thoughts. Never even thought of the .375 H & H as for some reason I thought it was "exotic" compared to the WM's. Shows you how much I know.

    I want to add my experience to Robert's - weirdly, I, too, found the .338 much more pleasant to shoot than the .300 WM. Not exactly, but something like the "sting" of firing lower-grain Leverrevolutions with the 45-70 v. the "smack" of the heavy, slower cast boolits. Don't care for the "kind" of recoil I get from the Hornady's, whereas the "duller thud," even if heavy, of the 405-425 grain boolit doesn't bother me too much (in fact, re another thread, now that my bench setup and technique is back in line, I don't mind the recoil).

    Don, I don't expect an elk hunt here, either (WI). I'm actually from out west and still have some connections in CO, where I hope to spend some more time, so this would be for western elk hunting. Hoping, anyway.
    -Paul

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Can .338 cases be easily formed from .300's or other belted magnums? If so, then that opens up a much larger source of brass.
    I have done so with a single pass. Function in my LW BAR is 100%.

    Far as handling goes, I also own a LW BAR in '06 and truly don't find massive recoil difference in the .338..........it does seem as tho the impulse with the .338 is longer. I will say that if I was going back to Alaska that .338 would be my first call.
    Last edited by dogrunner; 01-11-2023 at 09:47 AM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master TurnipEaterDown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinlever View Post
    ...
    I want to add my experience to Robert's - weirdly, I, too, found the .338 much more pleasant to shoot than the .300 WM. ...
    Your observation is more likely than not related to the recoil acceleration curve of the firearm. This is affected by aspects of the loading being fired, and the gun itself.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    I own a Ruger M-77 MkII Hawkeye in .338 Win Mag and feel it will take care of any hunting situation in the western hemisphere and most world wide for that matter. I was looking for an action to build a .338/06 on when I came across the Hawkeye at a price I couldn't turn down, $950.00 for the rifle with a Nikon 4-12 scope, several boxes of factory ammo, dies, some brass, and a box of bullets.

    I fell in love with the Hawkeye rifle, stainless steel, probably the best shaped laminated stock I've ever held, and it fits me. Do I need a .338 Win Mag? No, I do not, a .300Win Mag. would be just fine, in fact the same rifle in .30/06 would suit me. I don't see me hunting any large or dangerous game in the future. The .338WM IS expensive to shoot, recoil is excessive, (around 35fp depending on bullet and load), ammo isn't common by any means, look for 65-75gr. +/- powder, magnum primers, and bullets run .40 ea to several dollars apiece. I shoot Speer 225gr. SBT at .55 ea.

    It's a great flexible cartridge that deserves more attention than it gets with a wide selection of bullets 200, 215, 225, 230, 250, 270, and even 300gr if you find some old stock. Look seriously at a .300Win Mag, .338/06, .35 Whelen .375H&H before buying. These days it pays to have ammo available, and at a somewhat reasonable price.
    Liberalism is a cult divorced from reality.

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    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Thanks, will have to remember that. I always thought a .338 or .375 with mid-range cast slugs would be fun.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    I've looked at molds at Accurate, I'm not sure which I would buy, I would prefer a plain design, but a gas check design makes more sense.
    Liberalism is a cult divorced from reality.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithaca Gunner View Post
    I own a Ruger M-77 MkII Hawkeye in .338 Win Mag and feel it will take care of any hunting situation in the western hemisphere and most world wide for that matter. I was looking for an action to build a .338/06 on when I came across the Hawkeye at a price I couldn't turn down, $950.00 for the rifle with a Nikon 4-12 scope, several boxes of factory ammo, dies, some brass, and a box of bullets.

    I fell in love with the Hawkeye rifle, stainless steel, probably the best shaped laminated stock I've ever held, and it fits me. Do I need a .338 Win Mag? No, I do not, a .300Win Mag. would be just fine, in fact the same rifle in .30/06 would suit me. I don't see me hunting any large or dangerous game in the future. The .338WM IS expensive to shoot, recoil is excessive, (around 35fp depending on bullet and load), ammo isn't common by any means, look for 65-75gr. +/- powder, magnum primers, and bullets run .40 ea to several dollars apiece. I shoot Speer 225gr. SBT at .55 ea.

    It's a great flexible cartridge that deserves more attention than it gets with a wide selection of bullets 200, 215, 225, 230, 250, 270, and even 300gr if you find some old stock. Look seriously at a .300Win Mag, .338/06, .35 Whelen .375H&H before buying. These days it pays to have ammo available, and at a somewhat reasonable price.
    Good post.
    Don Verna


  17. #17
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    Growing up in the 60's and being a BIG fan of Elmer Keith I migrated toward the .33 calibers at an early age. I have three 338 Magnums a 338/06 and a 338/280 Wildcat.

    Cases can be formed relatively easily by necking up (or down) a wide variety of cases for almost all of them. Although the wildcat round needs a false shoulder as it is slightly stretched (065") and blown out.

    I have shot cast out of all of them and will say that for best performance at long range and full throttle loads you should use J words, although they can exhibit great accuracy with cast and reduced loads. I have gotten good accuracy with Lymans 33889 (an old 247 grain mold) and great accuracy from the Lee 338-220 mold in all of my rifles but will admit that the Lyman is slightly better for hunting. I can't speak about the expansion characteristics as I have never recovered a bullet from any of the animals, I have harvested with either of them and am not going to waste time in shooting ballistic gel or water jugs. I will say that they were DRT. I have run them over my Chrony and am pushing them at 2200 fps. at 18 BHN.

    As far as hunting rounds go with cast bullets the 45/70 gets the nod (I have 5 of those bad boys in various flavors) although the 338 is no slouch either and can drop animals (hogs, sheep, deer and goats) in their tracks with a well-placed shot.
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

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  18. #18
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurnipEaterDown View Post
    Your observation is more likely than not related to the recoil acceleration curve of the firearm. This is affected by aspects of the loading being fired, and the gun itself.
    Turnip, both were just from a day at the range where I let a guy shoot my 45-70 and he let me shoot both his .300 and .338 WM's. I don't recall his makes. I don't have the technical understanding, just my best recollection which felt comparable to me having shot the Hornady Leverrevolutions and my own 425 cast bullets (and my load was much hotter in terms of pressure - near max for the 1895 level). To be truthful, hated the "sting" of the Hornadys...maybe "sharp" is a better descriptor, but really don't mind the stiff recoil which I find "duller," more of a "push" than a "smack", of my own bullets (though it definitely took, and takes, some deliberate practice and conditioning for me- breath, and every once in awhile reminding myself the kick doesn't mean anything - not going to "get hurt," injured).

    Could you explain more of what you mean?
    -Paul

  19. #19
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithaca Gunner View Post
    I own a Ruger M-77 MkII Hawkeye in .338 Win Mag and feel it will take care of any hunting situation in the western hemisphere and most world wide for that matter. I was looking for an action to build a .338/06 on when I came across the Hawkeye at a price I couldn't turn down, $950.00 for the rifle with a Nikon 4-12 scope, several boxes of factory ammo, dies, some brass, and a box of bullets.

    I fell in love with the Hawkeye rifle, stainless steel, probably the best shaped laminated stock I've ever held, and it fits me. Do I need a .338 Win Mag? No, I do not, a .300Win Mag. would be just fine, in fact the same rifle in .30/06 would suit me. I don't see me hunting any large or dangerous game in the future. The .338WM IS expensive to shoot, recoil is excessive, (around 35fp depending on bullet and load), ammo isn't common by any means, look for 65-75gr. +/- powder, magnum primers, and bullets run .40 ea to several dollars apiece. I shoot Speer 225gr. SBT at .55 ea.

    It's a great flexible cartridge that deserves more attention than it gets with a wide selection of bullets 200, 215, 225, 230, 250, 270, and even 300gr if you find some old stock. Look seriously at a .300Win Mag, .338/06, .35 Whelen .375H&H before buying. These days it pays to have ammo available, and at a somewhat reasonable price.
    Great post. Thanks.
    -Paul

  20. #20
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stubshaft View Post
    Growing up in the 60's and being a BIG fan of Elmer Keith I migrated toward the .33 calibers at an early age. I have three 338 Magnums a 338/06 and a 338/280 Wildcat.

    Cases can be formed relatively easily by necking up (or down) a wide variety of cases for almost all of them. Although the wildcat round needs a false shoulder as it is slightly stretched (065") and blown out.

    I have shot cast out of all of them and will say that for best performance at long range and full throttle loads you should use J words, although they can exhibit great accuracy with cast and reduced loads. I have gotten good accuracy with Lymans 33889 (an old 247 grain mold) and great accuracy from the Lee 338-220 mold in all of my rifles but will admit that the Lyman is slightly better for hunting. I can't speak about the expansion characteristics as I have never recovered a bullet from any of the animals, I have harvested with either of them and am not going to waste time in shooting ballistic gel or water jugs. I will say that they were DRT. I have run them over my Chrony and am pushing them at 2200 fps. at 18 BHN.

    As far as hunting rounds go with cast bullets the 45/70 gets the nod (I have 5 of those bad boys in various flavors) although the 338 is no slouch either and can drop animals (hogs, sheep, deer and goats) in their tracks with a well-placed shot.
    Thanks for the info. I have to admit more ignorance - "J Words" - these are cast bullets, but with full copper jacketing? Can one do them oneself, at home?
    -Paul

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