New load development, no chrony, 100 yards, no ladder testing - shots per string?

[Bigslug]

Considering that you lack the data collection ability a chronograph gives you, I think five shots is probably the best balance between the false economy of three shots (which won't reliably give you a good sampling between the potential for shooter error and load variability), and ten shots (which will let you weed out called flyers, look for erratic behavior at that load level, and really let you know if you "have something").

I suppose it is feasible to apply the "ladder test" methodology even if you don't have a chronograph. The practice my Dad and I have applied for more than 25 years is to fire a series of single shots over the chrono - each of them containing 0.2 to 0.3 grains more powder than the last. We usually find "Nirvana" for the final load when we get a sequence of 3-5 shots where the velocity doesn't significantly vary, and those same 3-5 shots don't wander about the target. We pin our hopes in the middle of the high and low charges and test it out with about ten matching rounds the next trip to the range. Without the chrono, you'd be making an assumption about stable velocity, and would have to spot and record your impacts carefully, but you would have likely achieved the same result - finding the "dead spot" where a half grain or so of variation powder practically changes nothing downrange.

Might save you some components.

[huntinlever]

Considering that you lack the data collection ability a chronograph gives you, I think five shots is probably the best balance between the false economy of three shots (which won't reliably give you a good sampling between the potential for shooter error and load variability), and ten shots (which will let you weed out called flyers, look for erratic behavior at that load level, and really let you know if you "have something").

I suppose it is feasible to apply the "ladder test" methodology even if you don't have a chronograph. The practice my Dad and I have applied for more than 25 years is to fire a series of single shots over the chrono - each of them containing 0.2 to 0.3 grains more powder than the last. We usually find "Nirvana" for the final load when we get a sequence of 3-5 shots where the velocity doesn't significantly vary, and those same 3-5 shots don't wander about the target. We pin our hopes in the middle of the high and low charges and test it out with about ten matching rounds the next trip to the range. Without the chrono, you'd be making an assumption about stable velocity, and would have to spot and record your impacts carefully, but you would have likely achieved the same result - finding the "dead spot" where a half grain or so of variation powder practically changes nothing downrange.

Might save you some components.

Thanks, that's really helpful. Despite my best efforts to avoid collecting more equipment, it very well may be the confidence level of a chrono (not to mention te fact I'm considering a .300WM - .338 WM with load workup out to 300 yards or more) is in my future.

I always used the Competition Electronics Pro, the shoot-through diffuser type. Worked well, but always afraid I was going to blast the thing. The Magneto/bayonet style will work, apparently, on the lever gun, and it is appealing but for its apparent impact on POI. How do you, or anyone reading this, feel about the chrony styles sub-$200?

Edit: One thing I've always wondered about with the ladder method and shooter error - with one shot at each charge, doesn't that make every charge basically the least possible sampling per shot and therefore shooter error can wildly skew the results?

[Winger Ed.]

Despite my best efforts to avoid collecting more equipment,

No, no, no. That's not how it works. Whoever dies with the most toys wins!

[huntinlever]

No, no, no. That's not how it works. Whoever dies with the most toys wins!

If my wife has to do with it, any more GAS (gun acquisition syndrome) outbreaks, I'm likely to find out sooner rather than later.

[huntinlever]

Considering that you lack the data collection ability a chronograph gives you, I think five shots is probably the best balance between the false economy of three shots (which won't reliably give you a good sampling between the potential for shooter error and load variability), and ten shots (which will let you weed out called flyers, look for erratic behavior at that load level, and really let you know if you "have something").

I suppose it is feasible to apply the "ladder test" methodology even if you don't have a chronograph. The practice my Dad and I have applied for more than 25 years is to fire a series of single shots over the chrono - each of them containing 0.2 to 0.3 grains more powder than the last. We usually find "Nirvana" for the final load when we get a sequence of 3-5 shots where the velocity doesn't significantly vary, and those same 3-5 shots don't wander about the target. We pin our hopes in the middle of the high and low charges and test it out with about ten matching rounds the next trip to the range. Without the chrono, you'd be making an assumption about stable velocity, and would have to spot and record your impacts carefully, but you would have likely achieved the same result - finding the "dead spot" where a half grain or so of variation powder practically changes nothing downrange.

Might save you some components.

Well, this was an interesting day at the range. I was actually able to use a Magnetospeed but found the data very perplexing. I was getting velocities all over the place - increasing charges yielding wide swings slower in velocity, which didn't make sense. I know sensitivity can be an issue with cast lead, especially big bullets. Still, odd to go from say 1450 down to 1308 with an increase in powder.

At any rate, I decided to dismiss the chrono data and just try your visual method out, thanks again. The problem is that I found a wide swath of charges got me seemingly dialed in "good enough" and despite really trying to keep shots straight, eventually I lost track:



-so called it and moved on to 5-shot strings. I don't really mind recoil and am happy to go with anywhere from 35.5 - 36.0 grains 4198 over this 400 grain WFNGC. If I do use a chrony again, I'll make it the good old diffuser type - the Competition pro worked really well for me previously.

35.5, with one called, and a near double-shot:



And 36.0.



Plan to do at least 10 rounds each now to confirm.

And I do have a 16-shot set of 5744. I'll try the same "ladder" idea, without chrono, to see what I come up with. It would be nice to know a couple powders work well.