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Thread: Need any help with a unique tough one to solve - Hadamar Wildcat?

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Dec 2022
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    Lincoln, NE
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    Need any help with a unique tough one to solve - Hadamar Wildcat?

    New member. Not a dummy but not expert yet either. I've gotten a few oldies going again. Gonna need some experts on my latest project though. Last summer I purchased a combo drilling known as a Hild. Hadamar. That's all I know on it, it's short on markings. Unique 3 trigger gun. Two 16 gauge damascus barrels, and one unknown rifle barrel described simply as 44 caliber in the ad. Believed to be manufactured sometime in the 1900 area. A competent gunsmith friend and I have been trying to discern the rifle caliber. He made a casting, and wow, is this thing unusual. We've read through "Cartidges of the World" and have poured hundreds of hours into internet research, and haven't come up with much. I suppose with my luck, one of you will know what it is right off the bat. Here is the quickest and easiest way I can describe it. If you take a 43 Mauser case, and cut off most of that exceedingly long neck till the total brass length is exactly 2.00", and then bump out the neck diameter to .480", thus reducing the shoulder to barely noticeable, then you have a case that is exact to near exact in ALL other dimensions (refer to 43 Mauser dimensions). Problem #1: What the heck caliber is this? Some dimensions match some calibers, but none we can find match in all. It appears to be some wildcat? Problem #2: The outer neck diameter is .480", the inner groove of the barrel is .440". I can make a brass case in the above dimensions as I've described it, but the neck seems designed for a 45 caliber boolit. But the barrel is designed for a 44 caliber boolit? How do I make that work?

  2. #2
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Check out this link:

    https://www.ammoland.com/2012/09/cal...#axzz7pI3nyuZY

    .44 caliber is around 11mm

    Good luck

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Boolit Man
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    This Wiki link has case dimensions:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_mm_caliber

    Just scroll down to the rifle section

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
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    Wow, You accomplished more in one evening than I did in the last 3 months. The photo of the 11.03x50R Scheibengewehr from the first link looks visually just like our casting. I'm trying to find some dimensions of that case now. Then your second link looks very promising too. The way the guy describes his case, sounds pretty close to what my gunsmith and I came up with. The "11.15x51R Kurz" comes out dimensionally promising, but he doesn't mention anything about the neck of this oddball being .480 when the 43 Mauser is .465, unless, maybe, that's what the neck is once case length is trimmed down to 2". I'll have to do some research and see if I can get ahold of this Terry Wieland. Thanks.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    I had the same problem with a cape gun - did a chamber cast and knew I had a 10.5x47R - and sent the chamber cast to CH4D. I was confirmed that I had a 10.5x47R - and it was different than his other 23 10.5x47R chambers! Seems everyone made their own reamers back then and there was little standardization. Mine was made in Stettin, Germany (now Poland) and was sold between 1885 and April 1, 1892(?) the year Germany required proof testing. Mine has no proof marks.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    Update: the info above got me on the right track. Using it to do further research finally got me to where I needed to be. I finally pegged the caliber down, it is a 11.5x50R Werder caliber. The cartridge was used in a M69 rifle in the Franco-Prussian war. In finally getting to this point, I thought most the battle would be over, but now I need to find some reloading data for it. Not having any luck. Can someone give me some BP reloading data?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
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    They made that cartridge in rolling blocks, trap doors, bolt actions and even a single shot pistol. Say you can make the brass out of 43 Spanish and the 50-110, takes a 335 grain lead bullet plus Ch4 makes the dies. It is supposed to be a .446 caliber.
    The pictures show an old European style case with a bubble type extension on case base that sticks out past the rim.
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
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    “Never give up, never quit.”
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    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
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  9. #9
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    lar45's Avatar
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    Standard BP loading practices should suffice. Fill with FFg to reach the base of the bullet, seat a bullet and shoot. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    And review both 5744 and Trailboss powders.

    Both have formulas to calculate safe, low pressure loads for virtually any case and boolit combination.

    Good stuff.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    https://www.ammunitionartifacts.com/...med-mauser-m71


    And they claim they are making brass from 45-70. But a bit pricey.

    A little reading here and you should be able to make your own.

    It may be as simple as getting 45-70 trimmed down and necked down enough to chamber then fireforming to final size.

    Good luck.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check