1:16, a few questions

[Jevyod]

I have always worked with coww or a mixture of coww/pure. I am getting into muzzleloaders, and was encouraged to use a 1:16 alloy. 2 questions, any real problem using pewter instead of tin at the same 1:16 ratio? 2nd question, at what velocity does the alloy stop reliably expanding? I am getting 1600 fps muzzle velocity (lee 452-300 with a sabot) and trying to figure out my max range. Thanks!

[BLAHUT]

I use only pure lead at about 1200FPS or a tad less. Does not really not expand. Best mix for big slow flat nose bullets.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Pewter is a poor choice, you'll end up with a alloy that's harder the 16:1

[Sam Sackett]

Pewter is usually 96 - 99% tin. Use it just as you would use tin when alloying lead.

Sam Sackett

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Were you told "why" to use 16:1 ?
FYI, I've learned if you ask a question to a bunch of people who shoot front stuffers, you'll likely get a bunch of different answers.
Here's my answer, I use 200:1
That is 0.5% tin, it's just enough Tin to not change the hardness any measurable amount, but is enough Tin to inhibit corrosion/oxidation.
That's my 2¢

[triggerhappy243]

were you told "why" to use 16:1 ?
Fyi, i've learned if you ask a question to a bunch of people who shoot front stuffers, you'll likely get a bunch of different answers.
Here's my answer, i use 200:1
that is 0.5% tin, it's just enough tin to not change the hardness any measurable amount, but is enough tin to inhibit corrosion/oxidation.
That's my 2¢

tin also aides in mold fillout.

[Rickf1985]

16-1 is 11bhn which is a bit high for muzzle loading isn't it?

And using a 16 pure to 1 pewter will give you 15.6 bhn. Way to high for black powder and muzzleloading! That is regular rifle territory.

[hc18flyer]

I have not had trouble with pure lead 'fillout' in muzzle loading conical. Save your tin and pewter. hc18flyer

[HWooldridge]

He mentioned using a sabot - that adds a wrinkle where an alloy could work.

To answer the OP question, expansion is dependent on many variables, one of which is the intended game. If you have been successfully using 1:16, then feel free to continue. With regard to using pewter vs tin, just base the decision on the final Brinell hardness, rather than an exact ratio. In other words, 1:18 in pewter might be equivalent to 1:16 tin for your application.

[Land Owner]

Investigate the ratio (1 part in X parts):
1:10 = 10% Tin
1:16 = 6.25%
1:20 = 5%
1:40 = 2.5%
1:50 = 2%
1:100 = 1%
1:200 = 0.5%

Consider the cost of alloy @ $10.00 per pound of Tin and @ $1.00 per pound of Lead
1:10 = (1# x $10.00) + (9# x $1.00) = $19.00 for 10 pounds of alloy = $1.90 per pound
1:16 = (1# x $10.00) + (15# x $1.00) = $25.00 for 16 pounds = $1.56 per pound
1:20 = $29.00 for 20#'s = $1.45 per pound
1:30 = $1.30 per pound
1:40 = $1.23 per pound
1:50 = $1.18 per pound
1:100 = $1.09 per pound
1:200 = $1.05 per pound

Now consider how many times you will pull the trigger?

Let us help you understand how to save money...and keep shooting.

[lightman]

I see no problem using Pewter in place of tin as it contains 90+ percent tin. But I use pure lead, or as pure as I can find, in my muzzle loader.

[Jevyod]

So you all would use pure, even at 1600-1800 fps? Wouldn't that flatten too much?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've never noticed any "over" expansion with 200-1, but my charge of 75 gr of BP doesn't get anywhere near 1600fps.

[Dinny]

Pure lead bullets were used effectively for a long, long time before any of us walked this planet. Let the weight and length of the bullet do their job and kill with authority - period, plain, and simple.

[triggerhappy243]

What rifle are you working with?

[Jevyod]

I am working with a CVA Wolf muzzleloader, 1:28 twist, 50 Caliber. Planning on using the Lee 452-300 in sabots, in the 1600-1800 fps range

[Rickf1985]

To me that is not true muzzle loading so figuring out hardness for it is out the window. You are using a 45 cal. bullet inside of a sabot, which I assume is plastic. So this is not really true muzzle loading with bullet and lubed patch. Does a saboted bullet depend in obturation for barrel sealing?

You will have to excuse my ignorance here since I shoot soft round balls out of a caplock.

[Larry Gibson]

I use 16-1 alloy cast Maxi Bals in my TC Blk Mtn Magnum 50 cal. I push them at 1570 fps with excellent accuracy. The 16-1 alloy gave the best accuracy when the non-saboted bullet is pushed that hard. I also use the 16-1 alloy in GC'd bullets pushed to 1400 - 1600 fps. With saboted cast bullets in that rifle pushed up to 2000 fps I've found 20-1 alloy to work just fine.
Expansion with either alloy will be quite sufficient given that muzzle velocity to any reasonable range. Your max range will depend on how reliably (meaning 1st shot every time) you could hit the kill zone (say a 6" bulls eye).

[Tripplebeards]

I crossed that bridge 5 years ago and finally figured out how to mix it properly a few months back LOL. I first realized I had to melt a bunch of pewter and get the hardness to figure out the ratio. My current batch to 16 to 1 I started with 21 or 22 Burnell hardness...don't remember between the 1 bh difference right now. I mixed 16 to 1 and got about 10 or 10.2 BH. I had to mix it 8/1 to get 11 bh which I what 16/1 should be.

[Jevyod]

16-1 is 11bhn which is a bit high for muzzle loading isn't it?

And using a 16 pure to 1 pewter will give you 15.6 bhn. Way to high for black powder and muzzleloading! That is regular rifle territory.

I ran the numbers on the spreadsheet and according to what I was able to ascertain 16 pure to 1 pewter gave me 10.5 bhn. Not sure the 15.6 is correct!