Gunsmiths and other professionals

[ebb]

Go on u tube and do a search for Mark Novak, i don't know what episode it was in but in one of his talks, he mentions and discusses apprentices. He is a very good gunsmith; I have dealt with Rifle builders, but it is different from being a gunsmith. You can be both or one or the other, but because you are one doesn't make you both

[gunther]

A shooting buddy got out of college in 1970 with a degree in history. He soon found out there was nothing out there in his job field. Gotta have a Master's to teach high school. So, he went to see the Air Force recruiter. Signed on the line for a 6 month machinist school, in exchange for a 6 year enlistment. In 1976, there still was a slack economy, so he re-enlisted for a 6 month welder's school, in exchange for 6 more years. He figured he would be pretty well on his way to being a gunsmith by the time he got out. Don't know if he stayed in long enough to retire (20 years), but he was having a good time.

[justindad]

Do a piece of work on one of your guns, then pay a gunsmith to look it over and give you feedback on the quality of your work. Teach yourself.

[fatelk]

Hmmm, ok I don't think I framed what I trying g to say correctly. Ok so basically I'm not talking about trying to get a job or free training,that. It really it at all. More less it's me just trying to learn about something I'm curious about.
Basically if I see something that I'm curious about and I'd like to learn something about it, I ha e no rela problems paying or exchanging labor just to learn or have that experience. So prime example is a good friend of mine. Guy is a taxidermist. Very skilled. I got curious about it and asked if I could just sit in on him doing a mount , in exchange for helping him with some stuff around his place. Don't really have much of an intention to be a taxidermist just when I get curious about something well I hyper fixated and I want to just absorb as much as I can . I might drop it after I might keep fiddling with it I might start doing it myself, just depends. I've actually paid just to watch a good welder run a few beads. Loaded bricks for a brick layer just so I could see how they made their stuff so nice.
The idea of just expecting to get that from somone for free doesn't sit right with me. I find that kind of stuff extremely valuable so I'd at the very least like to exchange it for some of my time. If that makes sense .

I love your attitude! You'll go far in life with that kind of curiosity, drive, and ethics.

[waksupi]

Hmmm, ok I don't think I framed what I trying g to say correctly. Ok so basically I'm not talking about trying to get a job or free training,that. It really it at all. More less it's me just trying to learn about something I'm curious about.
Basically if I see something that I'm curious about and I'd like to learn something about it, I ha e no rela problems paying or exchanging labor just to learn or have that experience. So prime example is a good friend of mine. Guy is a taxidermist. Very skilled. I got curious about it and asked if I could just sit in on him doing a mount , in exchange for helping him with some stuff around his place. Don't really have much of an intention to be a taxidermist just when I get curious about something well I hyper fixated and I want to just absorb as much as I can . I might drop it after I might keep fiddling with it I might start doing it myself, just depends. I've actually paid just to watch a good welder run a few beads. Loaded bricks for a brick layer just so I could see how they made their stuff so nice.
The idea of just expecting to get that from somone for free doesn't sit right with me. I find that kind of stuff extremely valuable so I'd at the very least like to exchange it for some of my time. If that makes sense .

I get where you are coming from now. I've always been an information sponge, and have learned many skills, that don't necessarily have a use, but you never know when you WILL use the knowledge!

[Shurshot2]

If you have an interest in gunsmithing I would advise you to start by learning how machine works is done.
Machining metal and making guns go hand in hand.
Once you learn how the parts are made then you will get an understanding of how they are fitted together.
I went through machinist school specifically to learn how to work on guns. My teacher was an excellent self taught gunsmith and taught me how to headspace bolt action rifles.
I took woodworking in high school so I have a little knowledge about stock work.
YouTube videos on machine work are helpful and some may not agree but the American Gunsmith videos are pretty good also.

What he said. There is a real shortage of skilled machinists, valuable skill!

[MT Gianni]

The problem as I see it is coverage by insurance and workmans comp and minimum wage considerations. These could cost the owner big time if anything happened. The other problem with training a young person is too often they start a shop next to yours. Like telling someone about your secret fishing spot, then seeing it on You Tube.

[WRideout]

I took advantage of a forum member, Quack1, who offered to teach me how to finish a percussion kit revolver. He was generous with his time and knowledge, and helped me do a presentable first job. Having said that, it might be that you can find a skilled amateur who loves what he does, over a professional who does it for a living.

BTW: I went on to re-blue a percussion Derringer that turned out very nice.

Wayne

[ulav8r]

Gunsmithing is not a high paying job, so a smith needs to busy all the time, only work completed gets paid for most of the time. A good smith needs to be a good smith and a good businessman it he has his own shop. Todays legal climate makes it hard to justify spending time training someone who is not making money for the shop. Getting training in welding and machining is a good basis for much gunsmithing, but there is much more to it than that. Stock making is woodwork, but the only thing cabinet making has in common with it is finishing and stock finishes have requirements that cabinets do not.

Gunsmiths often specialize, some are pistol smiths, some are repairmen or re-finishers, and rifle makers can specialize in hunting rigs or a particular types of target rifles. One who does general repairs may go months or even years before they see the second example of some particular problem, so that could be a slow learning process. A good gunsmithing school can give you the basics but the main thing you need to know is what you want to learn so you can make a better decision on where to go, looking for that information. There have been several good books published on general gunsmithing and specialized fields such as checkering, metal finishing, engraving, etc. Some of those books are available online. One thing any field of gunsmithing is a good eye for what a proper job should look like, whether it the form or finish, or any number of other things.

Some of the books can give you a much better exposure to the many things encompassed by gunsmithing, maybe helping you to focus on whether you want to pursue any of it further.

[Wayne Smith]

Another piece of this is knowing your own limitations. Being numerically dyslexic machine work would be next to impossible for me, no matter how much I wanted to do it. I know I have no artistic ability, that has been made clear several times - so copying someone else's artistry is the limit I can go. Being ADHD anything that requires close concentration is very difficult, possible but very difficult. I was extremely nearsighted so flying in the Military was out.

These are some of my limitations and have directed my professional choices as well. I have aced every biology class I've ever taken, but struggled in Chemistry. So much for biochemistry, but I could get my doctorate in clinical psychology with no more math than statistics, and at that point in history hiring someone to run your data was normative. The Statistical Package for the Social Sciences required a main frame computer to run at that point in history. So I spent 40 years as a Clinical Psychologist.

[MrWolf]

Find someone that does what you are interested in and bring lunch - ask what they like, subs, burgers, etc and see if you could talk to them while they eat. If it goes well, ask if you could just watch them work one afternoon or when doing a project. Tell them will stay out of their way but you would like to just watch. Buy lunch again and ask those questions. Rinse repeat. Your enthusiasm will help make the difference. Worst they can do is say no but most will take you up on that initial "no obligation " lunch. Good luck.
Ron

[beezapilot]

I'm hesitant to post, but shall anyway. I think that you'll find being in someone's shop and "helping" that having your own common tools will aid you in progressing. The "do you have a rule that I can borrow?" "Can I use your micrometer?" "Where do you keep your pencils?" "Do you have spare safety glasses?" sort of thing can be wearing on hospitality. Also, saw a young fella once upon a time prying open a can with a 6 inch Starrett rule -that was not his. Most crafts and trade are the same skills applied in different ways. The machinist, mechanic, gunsmith all use the same micrometer, straight edge, rule, scribe, files, and so on. Having the basics of the trade at your fingertips can go a long way in being much less obtrusive should you be helping someone. In addition, at the end of the day, you know where your tools go- in your tool chest and out the door. Not scattered around as another chore for the man who owns the shop to put away, tune, wipe down, sharpen... Basic measuring tools and hand tools are pretty portable, staples in multiple crafts, and were a focal point of the apprenticeship process. When you had skills and tools you became a Journeyman and were off in the world. When I look at someones tools I appreciate the old stuff that has been restored, if you've a little heart in it- you'll take care of it and may respect the tools of some one else.

[Shopdog]

You'd be welcome here.... hope you have a strong back,haha. Old machines are stupid heavy. We have pretty much a dream shop that took years of dogged determination. Wads of cash,and a pickup truck.

Used machine prices fluctuate,no different than any thing else really? But short term and echo advice above.... you need to be snagging the metrology tools. Beautiful,durn near works of art.... old U.S. mics and "stuff". It's still reasonably priced. It's kinda like the minor league of tooling up. Most is under 100$...
Stepping up to the majors,you'll be dropping $1k on machines and swinging for the fence regularly. Also(where the strong back comes about) whether you like it or not,rigging is part N parcel with shop world. Big honkin jacks,chain hoists,etc. So,start buying some of that stuff too.

[beezapilot]

Heck. I picked up a 7 drawer Kennedy chest for a fiver at the last swop meet I went to. A little sheet metal work and a can of Krylon it looks & works fine, also scored an 18 inch Chapin & Stephens brass reinforced level from the 1930's for a buck. Don't have to spend a fortune if you've some elbow grease

[john.k]

Id say for sure ,you d need to be a proficient hobbyist with lathe ,mill ,drill,hand tools etc,and TIG welding....none of these is hard to learn the basics,but you need familiarity enough to avoid accidents.......its not much use trying to be a gunsmith straitout,unless you can do all this with confidence...............when I quit work,the bosses thought someone off the street could "pick it up in a week".........so thats all the guy had to learn to be a factory maintenance mechanic...Didnt work out.

[samari46]

I had the pleasure of watching a high class welder work for me on the job. He was used to basically working in crappy conditions and didn't give it a thought. Told him if you need anything come see and I'll get what you need. I went out of my way to take care of him. Really appreciated the refrigi wear insluated coveralls. Oil and steam lines were his speciality and darn was he good. The welders from the power house were prima donas, one told me one day he wasn't going to weld unless I humped his welding leads for him. I was the supervisor on watch at the time. By lunch he was back at the power house and told not to come back. Frank

[Ed K]

It's been pointed out you need to be a proficient hobbyist with lathe ,mill ,drill, hand tools etc, and TIG welding none of which are skills you need to obtain from a gunsmith. In fact many of those skills should be obtained from an expert in each respective area - not a gunsmith.

Teach yourself. Yeah, read books, watch youtube, buy your own machines and learn them. Teach yourself.

Are you considering any sort of business model? For example do you really see yourself TIG welding a bolt and chambering a barrel on a lathe one day, putting together a black rifle the next, fixing Bubba's mistake the next, bore sighting a scope the next and so on in a manner where you can really have a well running and profitable business? What is the ROI on all the machinery when you spend a string of days futzing with small issues coming through the front door? What about the ROI on the brick & mortar address to bring in all the Bubba traffic when you are holed up building a custom gun for a week or two? What is the goal?

What is your patience level and attention to detail? Frankly your ability to express yourself and grammar in your posts don't suggest a deliberate, methodical approach to solving a problem. That may have hurt and if my view is incorrect I apologize. Just trying to give honest feedback on something you're inquiring on.

[lightload]

I suggest you drive over to Southwest Mississippi Community College in Summit and check out their machine shop courses. I grew up in Summit. If you will pm me your address, I will send you a nifty gun smithing reference. No charge.

[GregLaROCHE]

The first problem you have is that today there are fewer and fewer experienced gunsmiths around. Today so much is snapped or screwed together. You no longer need a gunsmith to drill and tap your barrel to mount a scope etc.

Second, It’s not easy to train someone. There is the cost of time it takes and the mistakes you will make. Also, today the world is so caught up in liability. What if you get hurt or you make a mistake that isn’t caught and the customer is later hurt because of your mistake?

You need to find someone who likes you and wants to do you a favor. I’m sure there are some who will be willing to help you. I hope you find them.

[GregLaROCHE]

If you are interested in gunsmithing, this guy has a lot of good videos. Here’s one.

https://youtu.be/KmPBy6Z3elw