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Thread: hercules blue dot

  1. #21
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    I suggest that no one shoot full throttle Blue Dot loads in Magnum pistol calibers in ambient temperatures below freezing.
    I've experienced what I believe is pressure spikes by doing just that.
    (louder reports, increased recoil, flattened primers, stuck cases)

    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    This myth is getting to be like Paul Bunyan.

    <<<SNIP
    I don't believe it's a myth, but I will admit, I have no way to document my experiences to you, for proof.
    I've talked to others with same experiences that I've had.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    I suggest that no one shoot full throttle Blue Dot loads in Magnum pistol calibers in ambient temperatures below freezing.
    I've experienced what I believe is pressure spikes by doing just that.
    (louder reports, increased recoil, flattened primers, stuck cases)


    I don't believe it's a myth, but I will admit, I have no way to document my experiences to you, for proof.
    I've talked to others with same experiences that I've had.
    That's a whole other different myth. I was referring to the myth of bluedot not being ok for 41 magnum (but ok in other handguns), which is not true at all. It is one of the best 41 magnum powders there are.

    The myth of bluedot spiking in cold weather, well I'm not sure what I can do to ease your mind. I regularly pressure test with the Pressure Trace II, and I've never seen anything except pressure going down in cold weather like every other powder. I don't take my pressure testing stuff out in the extreme cold, but I shoot all year. -20F has never been an issue in shotguns, handguns (many of which are full throttle magnum pistols), or rifles. Every single lot of powder Alliant produces is tested in their lab at -20F, including Bluedot. You don't have to take my word for it, Alliant is quite open and proud about the testing they do with their powders. They would never continue to make a powder that was in any way unsafe.

  3. #23
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    Blue Dot is one of the first-choice propellants for major power loads in .38 Super. Which is ONE of the reasons I would "ever burn 20% MORE #2400 when Blue Dot will do the same thing and burn cleaner".
    Just saying...
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
    He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
    ...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40


    Carpe SCOTCH!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    That's a whole other different myth. I was referring to the myth of bluedot not being ok for 41 magnum (but ok in other handguns), which is not true at all. It is one of the best 41 magnum powders there are.

    The myth of bluedot spiking in cold weather, well I'm not sure what I can do to ease your mind. I regularly pressure test with the Pressure Trace II, and I've never seen anything except pressure going down in cold weather like every other powder. I don't take my pressure testing stuff out in the extreme cold, but I shoot all year. -20F has never been an issue in shotguns, handguns (many of which are full throttle magnum pistols), or rifles. Every single lot of powder Alliant produces is tested in their lab at -20F, including Bluedot. You don't have to take my word for it, Alliant is quite open and proud about the testing they do with their powders. They would never continue to make a powder that was in any way unsafe.
    I don't believe it's a myth.
    Felix talked about it (it took me a while to find this vintage post)

    Fun fact: I still use Blue Dot...I have some plans for it's use in loading cast boolits in Rifle cartridges.

    07-27-2008, 08:30 AM

    Just maybe I could be of help here, considering my experiences with BD. I have used several different older lots of it in quantity, ALL before the formulas started to change. My standard loads were/are 10-150K-357M, 12.5-220K-41M, 14.5-250K-44M, 9-60(225646)-222, all with CCI/Rem standard pistol. I shoot these loads only between 40 and 90 degrees which is in my comfort zone. These older lots are consistent enough day-to-day to where I could not tell any realistic difference in performance, velocity or accuracy.

    Yes, the powder pressure spikes tremendously when pushed over the edge. Accuracy is quite smooth when using a quasi 15 percent reduction below that pressure edge which is fairly easy to determine with recoil alone. Unfortunately, accuracy keeps getting better as the edge is approached, and that is a major problem with BD in the hands of inexperienced users.

    Along comes WW630 to hopefully take care of that problem. This powder has the speed regulated exactly half way between BD and 2400. There are no powders currently made which fit this bill.

    Here is my speculation. It is difficult to formulate a powder in this speed range. BD lot changes of late deal with the dirty bore syndrome, and yet some chemist tried to introduce a formulation to eliminate that top end problem, as well as the crystal changes well below freezing temps. All powders are made with a controlled water content, and perhaps the BD performance range depends on that value being very closely regulated. When the powder dries out in storage of any kind, it's pressure capability is adversely affected because of the lack of tolerance.

    In other words, it has been especially difficult to make a powder faster than 2400 and slower than Herco with stability required across all applications, gun and weather combined.

    ... felix

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...l=1#post370874
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    I don't believe it's a myth.
    Felix talked about it (it took me a while to find this vintage post)

    Fun fact: I still use Blue Dot...I have some plans for it's use in loading cast boolits in Rifle cartridges.





    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...l=1#post370874
    375 H&H is awesome with Blue Dot

  6. #26
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    those old Hercules cans are collectors items now a day. I wish I had kept my old powder cans from years ago.

  7. #27
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    Call Alliant. Bluedot does not spike in cold weather, no powder does. They might be able to help you figure out what happened in your loads.

  8. #28
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    10.5 Blue Dot in 45 acp, 200 gr Lyman BB lswc is a hot one. Best fired in a S&W 645 auto. May break a 1911? Had powder left over from shotguns.

  9. #29
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    In cold weather [freezing or below] what can be perceived a "pressure spike" is actually an ignition problem. It's how the powder ignites and burns that creates the pressure curve. Those ignition problems are most often solved with the use of a magnum primer in freezing cold weather.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  10. #30
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    I got a Ruger Blackhawk in 41 mag about 1985. I use a 225gr cast over 16.5 grs of Blue Dot for 1480 fps. Been using this from the start. Coldest I have ever shot this load was around -30. The empties slid easily from the cylinders so I assume there was no excessive pressure.
    I had already shot a lot of these rounds when the 41 BD thing came out so I just ignored it and still do.
    Last edited by rbuck351; 01-02-2023 at 04:21 AM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    In cold weather [freezing or below] what can be perceived a "pressure spike" is actually an ignition problem. It's how the powder ignites and burns that creates the pressure curve. Those ignition problems are most often solved with the use of a magnum primer in freezing cold weather.
    Thanks Larry.
    I surely can't discount this theory.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  12. #32
    Boolit Bub
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    Blue Dot also works quite well in 32-20 and 25-20 loads around 6 to 7 grs.

  13. #33
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    I also like Blue Dot in many rifle cartridges, I follow Seafire quite a bit. Good Luck and Good Shooting, Chris

  14. #34
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    Use it in cast loads in 06, 30/40, and 243 Win.

  15. #35
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    Anybody messing with Blue Dot in a .357 Maximum?

  16. #36
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    Blue Dot has been my "go to" powder for the .41 magnum for years, especially cast bullets. I have tried 2400 and H110 but did not like them in cast, getting better results with Blue Dot. I talked to Alliant about my load in .41 magnum and they sent me an email telling me my load should be just fine for my use. They did say one thing, a warning not use Blue Dot with maximum loads in weather below 30*. No explanation for the warning. I lost the email memo when my old computer crashed but am working on memory here(bad idea maybe). I never use maximum loads, I use a starting load and work up with each individual rifle or handgun until I get the accurracy I want and stop there. An old timer told me years ago some words of wisdom; if the load you are using doesn't get the job done, go up in bullet weight or go larger in caliber. I have found it to be sound advice over the years. I settled on the 30-06 many, many years ago as the ideal rifle for my uses and although I have played with other calibers, it is what I picked up when I went deer hunting, etc. I also came to like the 8x57mm round but it never replaced the 06 in my heart. my experience anyway, james

  17. #37
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    I love Blue Dot, .357 and .45acp.

    I did have an issue with it. .45LC Ruger BH. I had loaded up some cartridges (I can't remember what they were). The load was supposed to give me around 1300fps. And it did for a few cylinder loads. Then one round had a significantly louder bang, more recoil and the chronograph said well over 1500fps. I pondered it a minute or two and then realized my shooting technique had been different. I had raised the gun up from a low position and fired it. Most of the time with that revolver I would raise it to cock the hammer and lower it to fire. So, I repeated the low position and had the same result. Loud, bigger push and higher velocity. Went back to the high position and it went back to 'normal'.

    So, I stopped using BD when the load density was lower. For my other pistols the max loads fill the case quite well.

    And I have noticed the lack of 125gn data for the .357. Has not been a problem for me for many years since I started shooting 140 or 158gn bullets in that caliber.

    PS I also do use BD for gallery loads in the .308. 8gn in that big case works really well.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check