5.56 LC head stamps

[Mobier]

I've got a lot of 5.56 or .223 brass. I've been separating the .223 from the 5.56 (3000 rounds). My rifle does not shoot the 223. All the brass I have is once fired (I hope) that I got from my local range. About 40% of it is Lake City. Some has the NATO star and many do not. The 223 that is from LC usually says 223 REM, but a lot of it doesn't have anything indicating what it is. In this process I've gone over everything twice to ensure that I got all 5.56. Is there any documentation that shows pictures of LC head stamps where I can determine what they are? If anyone has partial (confirmed) info I'll take it as well. I'm also looking at IMI and PSD. Most PSD says 5.56x.45, some doesn't. The IMI doesn't tell me. The PSD is Korean (clear marking, looks good). Any help will be appreciated.

[Winger Ed.]

It's US military issue brass probably recovered & sold from military firing ranges, then reloaded.
LC stands for Lake City, and the will be a 2 digit date of manufacture on them too.
It's good stuff, and a lot of people prefer it. You might also find some WRA head stamps in there too.
They are also USGI from Winchester Repeating Arms and will also have the date of manufacture.

IMI is from Israel Military Industries. It's made to the same NATO specs. as USGI.

You can load it and the .223 mixed together. They interchange.
If you have a REAL old .223, it might not quite chamber a new factory 5.56 NATO round, but all the newer stuff does.
Reloading the cases is a non-issue.

On military brass, the primers will be crimped.
Read up on dealing with that, and you'll be fine.

[Ajax111]

Help me understand why your rifle won't shoot the 223 cases? Can you expand on that a little?

[Mobier]

I was shooting m855 and it worked good. Then I bought some Nosler .223 Varmagedoon. These after a few rounds jammed. I had problems with wolf ammo early on with the same problem. The rifle was pretty new at the time so I called up Ruger and ended up sending the rifle back to them. When it came back it was shooting ok (before I bought the nosler). They told me that they had to adjust the pressure. This rifle does not have a barrel mounted gas valve, at the time I didn't know how to adjust it. They configured the bump stock. This sounds like a pain in the butt. I was under the impression that a 5.56 would shoot .223 ok, but because of the pressure in a 5.56 a .223 rifle couldn't shoot 5.56. When I called and told them what was happening they told me that by no means can you shoot .223 because the AR 556 was designed for 5.56. Other people knowledgeable with ARs said that wasn't true (BS). I thought about getting a wylde barrel with a gas valve, and looked to see if Ruger sold them. They don't, and putting one in would void warranty. Ruger has a good reputation for supporting their products. I've had many Ruger handguns and never had any problems, but this is disturbing. So, most of the once fired brass is 5.56. I've been sorting out the .223 just to play it safe. I don't plan to load them heavy either way. I just want to be able to hit a beer can at 300 yards. Most of the LC ammo does not have a nato star. I have some .223 LC that is clearly marked 223 REM. Since LC makes a lot of 5.56 I was assuming that they may be 5.56 (no 223 REM). Their head stamp almost looks like hieroglyphics. This confusion seems typical of government products (too much info). So I'm looking for answers. Winger.ed has said I should be ok, then I'm hearing a different story from Ruger. The IMI brass has nothing to indicate what it is either. It is also government brass??? Most of the PSD brass tells me 5.56, then there are some that have a code (no help there). Speer brass has a 2 digit code (about 4 different codes???). I'm thinking about trading my rifle. I'm new to reloading rifle, so I'm putting it together slowly. I've been reloading pistol loads for 30 years. Rifle is a bit more complex.

[Larry Gibson]

"I was under the impression that a 5.56 would shoot .223 ok, but because of the pressure in a 5.56 a .223 rifle couldn't shoot 5.56."

Partial truth, partial BS.

Usually not a good idea to shoot 223 commercial factory ammunition in ARs or other rifles having 9" or faster twists. Has nothing to do with the pressure as 223s are loaded, generally, to a lessor pressure than NATO spec 5.56. The problem is the construction of the bullets used in both. Remington 223s are almost always loaded by the factory with thin jacketed "explosive" bullets such as the Varmagedon. Those bullets will not withstand the centrafugal force created by the RPMs of rifles having faster twists the 10" and most often 12" twists and many times disintegrate within 50 yards of the muzzle. Bullets loaded for use in 5.56 cartridges, particularly those loaded to NATO spec (the + sign in the headstamp) have much thicker jackets to withstand the RPM/centrafugal force. FYI; at 3000 fps a12" twist generates 180,000 rpm, a 9" twist 240,000 rpm and a 7" twist 308,000 rpm.

As to the difference in brass between all the different makes you mention....there probably isn't any meaningful difference. Manufactures, for many years now, do not make different grades of cases for the different loads. The only meaningful difference is just the head stamp so "playing it safe" not using the 223 cases becomes a moot point.

[Mobier]

I've got a Dillon swage tool for the primer pockets. I need to play with that. All my brass has been deprimed and cleaned. My next step is to swage them, then size them and trim before powder and bullet.

[Mobier]

This barrel has 1/8 twist which I thought was kind of the middle of the road. The head of a lot of this LC ammo looks like it was pounded pretty good, making some of the stamp un-readable. I'm thinking that this may not be an issue once I trim.

"I am as old as my tongue, and a little older than my teeth"
Kris Kringle (Miracle on 34th street)

I love a good quote

[Winger Ed.]

The head of a lot of this LC ammo looks like it was pounded pretty good, making some of the stamp un-readable.

That's a sign they've been run pretty hot and/or reloaded several times.

No big deal, but you might want to anneal them, and also watch for neck splits.

[M-Tecs]

The head of a lot of this LC ammo looks like it was pounded pretty good, making some of the stamp un-readable. I'm thinking that this may not be an issue once I trim.

If that was factory LC M855 or M193 you have a serious issue someplace. Along with the headstamp being un-readable the primer pockets are likely expanded and they are toast.

For the most part, unless you are running a can, adjustable gas blocks are not necessary.

They told me that they had to adjust the pressure. This rifle does not have a barrel mounted gas valve, at the time I didn't know how to adjust it. They configured the bump stock. This sounds like a pain in the butt. I was under the impression that a 5.56 would shoot .223 ok, but because of the pressure in a 5.56 a .223 rifle couldn't shoot 5.56. When I called and told them what was happening they told me that by no means can you shoot .223 because the AR 556 was designed for 5.56.

Ruger is a stickler about factory spec. parts. Only way to adjust the gas pressure is to open the port. Unless it was originally undersize Ruger will not send it out with an oversize port so it would be interesting to know what they actually did?

Ruger has long history of removing and replacing any non-Ruger parts. They tend not to return the non-Ruger parts. What did they do to configure the bump stock?

[Larry Gibson]

This barrel has 1/8 twist which I thought was kind of the middle of the road. The head of a lot of this LC ammo looks like it was pounded pretty good, making some of the stamp un-readable. I'm thinking that this may not be an issue once I trim.

"I am as old as my tongue, and a little older than my teeth"
Kris Kringle (Miracle on 34th street)

I love a good quote

FYI; a 1/8" twist is fast, not "middle of the road". The 8" twist is used for the heavier 75 - 80 gr match bullets and is consider a fast twist. The 7" twist in milspec AR barrels is to stabilize the quite long 5.56 tracer bullet. It will stabilize match bullets of 90 gr but really is not needed unless you shoot a lot of long range matches or a lot of tracers. A 9" twist will stabilize the M855 62 gr Green Tip bullet just fine as well as the 75 gr Hornady match made for that twist. A 10" twist [common in older Mini14's] will also stabilize the M855 bullet. As I mentioned before, these faster twists will not shoot the thinner jacketed "explosive" varmint bullets well above 2700 - 2800 fps.

A 14" twist was the original twist but then changed to a 12" twist for the 223 Remington/5.56 cartridges. Those twists do fine with bullets not longer than the M193 bullet. They do extremely well with the thinner jacketed FB bullets of 55 gr or less at velocities in the 3000 to 3400 fps range.

I have found the Sierra 55 gr Blitz King to be an excellent performer in my 1/8" twist 223. I push it at 3350 fps with H335 and it holds 1/2 - 3/4 moa at 300 yards. For my F Class match load I use the Hornady 75 gr Match [not the one for 9" twists as Hornady makes a 75 gr match bullet for 9" twist ARs also] over Varget for 2850 fps.

"The head of a lot of this LC ammo looks like it was pounded pretty good"

Are those LC cases once fired? By you or purchases or range pick up?

[Ajax111]

I'm not familiar with Ruger style AR's . Is this a piston driven gun?

[Mobier]

All I know is "they adjusted the bump stock". I believe they twisted the lock nuts to get to the right place. I just bought a primer pocket gauge. I was wondering how I knew my Dillon swage was doing the job anyway. The M855 is definitely factory. The LC cartridges that look hammered came from a local range, not my rifle.

[Mobier]

No, gas impingement. with bump stock adjust (no valve on the barrel.

[M-Tecs]

All I know is "they adjusted the bump stock". I believe they twisted the lock nuts to get to the right place. I just bought a primer pocket gauge. I was wondering how I knew my Dillon swage was doing the job anyway. The M855 is definitely factory. The LC cartridges that look hammered came from a local range, not my rifle.

Bump stock have been classified as full auto since 2019 and Ruger never made them. Are you referring to carbine stock? If you still have a bump stock it is currently illegal.
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regula...ocks/questions

The hammered brass needs to be inspected closely. I save my junk brass and sell it for scrape. Most just leaving it on the ground when it's at the end of it's useful life. Loose primer pockets, pending case separations or spilt necks can be an issue will end of the life range brass that a lot of people leave laying around.

I am a serious brass scrounger but unless it looks to be once fired it goes into my scrape bucket.

Reloaders tend to pick up their brass unless there are issues with it. The non-reloaders leaving once fired is an excellent source of good brass.

[Mobier]

Range pickup. I've got H335. I was going to try different bullets and see what works the best. The Sierra 55 gr Blitz King is described as an explosive bullet at Sierra site. I wanted to stay at a max of 3000 fps. I'm new to rifle reloading so I'm still watching Johnny's reloading bench. I'm at the point where, for now, I'm preparing the brass. I've got a 1/8 twist, so I need to find the right bullet. based on what I've seen here, an explosive bullet is not what I want for the 1/8th twist. I'm looking for a 300 yard shot.

[Winger Ed.]

1/8 will stabilize almost anything. Maybe not the heaviest bullets available, but everything under it.
The heavier bullets is why they had to step up the twist rate.

Read up on them a little, but some of those varmit bullets Like Hornady's SX series made to rapidly expand have such a thin jacket,
some will fly apart when they leave the barrel if they're going too fast in a barrel faster than a 1/10 twist, some even with faster than 1/12.

[M-Tecs]

Some highly explosive bullets will tolerate being way overspun. Others not so much. For prairie dogs I use 40 grain and 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip or Hornady V-max. I've normally shoot between 2K and 6K per year mostly out of 9 twist barrels. The 40 grain in the 9 twist are a little over 3,800 FPS. I have never had one blowup.

The Speer 52 gain TNT will make it about 25 to 30 yards before they come apart in my 9 twist barrels. Sometimes they don't come apart but they do start an ever-expanding corkscrew until they hit the ground per watching the trace.

[Mobier]

It's not a "Bump Stock". It's the apparatus at the back of the rifle I was referring to with springs. They adjust the spring tension in leu of a barrel mounted gas valve. A full auto is a waste of ammunition for civilian purposes. I am familiar with the probability of crappy brass. I've already decided that this brass will be dumped. I paid $60 for 1400 rounds. I've been trying to identify 5.56 brass. The LC brass with the NATO star is good, but I have a lot that has no NATO star and other than the .223 REM, I have no idea what they are. Do you know? Is there any info out there that would identify these LC cases. That's what I need to know.

[Mobier]

I've got some Hornady 62gr Vmax to try out. I've always had success with Hornady XTP in 44 mag, 45 mag, 357 Mag and 40 smith & Wesson. All straight brass. When I start to reload each of them I get a Box of Hornady ammo for each one and compare it to my reloads. My groups are always better. So, for a Hornady 62 gr VMax on a 18" barrel with a 1/8 twist, what would you recommend? I have a pound of H335 as well. I've got recipes for that round that go up to 3000fps which is around where I want to be. These recipes came from Hornady with no mention of twist rate. Sooner or later I'll find the right solution. I have many resources. I listen to all of them looking for the common answers. So far I'm hearing a lot of contradiction, but I'll put it together, I don't plan on reloading till late spring. For now I have 1500 straight cases to load.


"Opinions are like buttholes, everybody has one"
--Bill Fowler

[Larry Gibson]

Range pickup. I've got H335. ....... The Sierra 55 gr Blitz King is described as an explosive bullet at Sierra site. I've got a 1/8 twist, so I need to find the right bullet. based on what I've seen here, an explosive bullet is not what I want for the 1/8th twist. I'm looking for a 300 yard shot.

Look at the "Varminter" section of bullets at the Sierra bullet site. There you will find 50 and 55 gr Blitz bullets which have the thin jackets and are not suitable for over 2700 - 2800 fps in 9" and faster twist 223/5.56 rifles. The 55 gr Blitz King has a thicker jacket to withstand the RPM of those faster twists at 3000+ fps. It is also a longer bullet which requires a 9" or faster twist to stabilize. They are made for the faster twists. I shot a lot of PDs with them loaded over H335 from 300 to 500 yards out of my Savage Competition with 9" twist, actually finished shooting the barrel out on that strip. My M700V with an 8" twist Kreiger barrel 26" long runs them also at 3350 fps with sub moa accuracy with 10 shot groups. Try them over 26 gr of your H335 with WSR primers (measured 60,000 psi) out of your AR. They run 3150 fps out of my 20" barreled Colt AR Competition with 9" twist and are as accurate as with match bullets.