Powder coating and long term storage

[COUSIN DANIEL]

I have never PC a bullet before and I have questions about if the PC affects powder charges in long term storage. My definition of long term is 10-20 years before it is used.

I recently scored 5000 Argentina small pistol primers on powder valley and i want to load 5000 9mm for future shooting trips. Given the projected future I may have to make this batch of 9mm stretch.

Will the ammo survive or will PC cause deterioration?

[Hick]

I'll be following this discussion, because I don't know of anyone who has looked into it. From my own chemical training I would think PC is not likely to degrade powder because it is a cured dry coating and PC does not normally degrade in other applications. If anything I would expect it to go the other way: if the gunpowder degrades the released products might degrade the PC. But, as noted, I don't think anyone has put it to the test.

[Misery-Whip]

Im considering getting a plain base check maker and seat a soda can check on the bullet. No contact between the coating and charge. None of my rounds make it more than a year. But if they did....

[FredBuddy]

There are several threads here in which
folks have described experiments about
this question. One or 2 powders may
cause a problem.

I don't use the search function here very
well; instead I scan the list of posts and
look for titles that interest me. You might try it.

[charlie b]

There are a few people who have pulled bullets where the powder was 'sticking' to the coating. Not sure if it was degraded or not, ie, does powder sticking to the base give less velocity? Since most of us don't pull bullets to check this it is not a very well researched issue. At least one of those who had an issue like this were also not baking the bullets the full mfg suggested time and temp.

Seems someone should do a good test series and document it.

[rsrocket1]

First of all, I would never put all my eggs in one basket. 5000 rounds is a lot, especially if you are considering a shelf life of 10-20 years for those rounds. I would never load and store a year's worth of one caliber of ammo (and I actually averaged 10,000 rounds/year for a stretch of about 8 years). Even at that, I only kept around 1000 rounds loaded per caliber at a time. If all you have and all you will ever have is 9mm, I guess you can load 'em all up, but that's tying up a lot of primers and powder that can potentially be used in other calibers should you buy some more guns. I suppose if you can afford it and have access to more primers at the drop of a hat you're OK.

I've done testing with powders and PC. I already knew that high nitroglycerine content powders like Titegroup, Power Pistol and Bullseye ate away at some powder hoppers if left overnight or over a week of reloading. My Hornady LnL AP hopper is dark brown just from the contact of pouring dozens of pounds of powder for just an hour at a time during a loading session. I had started a multi month test of powders sitting against bullets coated with the old Harbor Freight Red powder. I've lost some of the pictures and got rid of the samples after a couple of years because I figured I don't keep loaded ammunition that long anyway. I usually shoot everything I load within a couple of months.



These were the powders I had on hand at the beginning of the test. In fact, I knew Clays, Unique and Red Dot had very little to no nitroglycerin in them while the others (Bullseye, Titegroup, Power Pistol) had a lot of NG in their double base. The rest of the powder sitting in the case was not discolored, only a very small amount of the powder coat on the bullet base was distorted. So my conclusion was that the NG did interact with the PC but it was just a fast surface action at the point of contact and not a progressive interaction.

I've shot the same loads with "older" loads of a few months using PC and High Nitro powder and could not distinguish them between those and new loads. So there seem to be no major change within a few months. I cannot say what would happen over many years because I have no intention of loading a bunch of rounds, setting them aside for years and then shooting them so if you want to empirically test this yourself, you are welcome to do so.

The safest route would be to load a year's worth of rounds using a low nitro content powder such as Unique or Universal.

[barnetmill]

Well on the other side of the topic, is PC worse on powder that are so some lubricants. I have had some commercial cast bullets inactivate the load for reloaded rounds stored in the trunk of a car. I am not sure if it was the powder or primer or both that were giving the problem.
I have seen years ago greasy PMC lead bullets of rimfire .22 LR that were improperly stored at high temperatures inactivate the powder and at times the primer. Some of the bullets stopped in the bore in some cases in the muzzle with the bullet nose sticking out.

[BJung]

I've pulled PC bullets and noticed that BE was sticking to the paint and the paint was so soft, I could scrape the lead off with my fingernail. There are videos on Rumble and Youtube that identify Bullesye, Tightgroup, and Powder Pistol as powders that will react and soften you PC within a month. I'm thinking that a piece of paper between the PC and BE might help just as WWII surplus .303 bullets had this paper patch on the base. Or maybe Lee Alox painted on the base.

[mehavey]

...Lee Alox painted on the base....

In that case, simply thin-coat ALOX would be the preferred coating for Hi-Nitro based powders.
FWIW: Retro as it is, ALOX is incredibly effective -- and properly applied/dried every bit as good as PC

[kenacp]

Would 231 react with the PC? Have been using that in my 38 special loads.
Thanks

[unique]

According to Alliant, Unique has 20% NG. Old Unique has 40% NG.

[jdgabbard]

According to Alliant, Unique and all of the "Dots" are double base powders having about 20% Nitroglycerin. If Nitroglycerin is the culprit, then it would reason that lower NG content powders would be desirable. I have been curious about Ramshot's True Blue and Silhouette powders. I can't find any info on how much if any nitro is in there, but they may be a more suitable option for replacing BE, Unique and Red Dot.

[kenacp]

Does the high NG powders affect PC in general, as in most manufactures? I am currently using Smokes clear and black. I really wanted to use some BE. Looks like I am going to have to do some testing.

[memtb]

First of all, I would never put all my eggs in one basket. 5000 rounds is a lot, especially if you are considering a shelf life of 10-20 years for those rounds. I would never load and store a year's worth of one caliber of ammo (and I actually averaged 10,000 rounds/year for a stretch of about 8 years). Even at that, I only kept around 1000 rounds loaded per caliber at a time. If all you have and all you will ever have is 9mm, I guess you can load 'em all up, but that's tying up a lot of primers and powder that can potentially be used in other calibers should you buy some more guns. I suppose if you can afford it and have access to more primers at the drop of a hat you're OK.

I've done testing with powders and PC. I already knew that high nitroglycerine content powders like Titegroup, Power Pistol and Bullseye ate away at some powder hoppers if left overnight or over a week of reloading. My Hornady LnL AP hopper is dark brown just from the contact of pouring dozens of pounds of powder for just an hour at a time during a loading session. I had started a multi month test of powders sitting against bullets coated with the old Harbor Freight Red powder. I've lost some of the pictures and got rid of the samples after a couple of years because I figured I don't keep loaded ammunition that long anyway. I usually shoot everything I load within a couple of months.



These were the powders I had on hand at the beginning of the test. In fact, I knew Clays, Unique and Red Dot had very little to no nitroglycerin in them while the others (Bullseye, Titegroup, Power Pistol) had a lot of NG in their double base. The rest of the powder sitting in the case was not discolored, only a very small amount of the powder coat on the bullet base was distorted. So my conclusion was that the NG did interact with the PC but it was just a fast surface action at the point of contact and not a progressive interaction.

I've shot the same loads with "older" loads of a few months using PC and High Nitro powder and could not distinguish them between those and new loads. So there seem to be no major change within a few months. I cannot say what would happen over many years because I have no intention of loading a bunch of rounds, setting them aside for years and then shooting them so if you want to empirically test this yourself, you are welcome to do so.

The safest route would be to load a year's worth of rounds using a low nitro content powder such as Unique or Universal.

Many years ago I read an article by Skeeter Skelton in Shooting Times magazine, where 2400 left in his powder measure for several days played heck with the plastic reservoir! memtb