MidSouth Shooters SupplyWidenersLoad DataTitan Reloading
Inline FabricationLee PrecisionRepackboxRotoMetals2
Reloading Everything
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 52 of 52

Thread: Designing a heavy slow .44 bullet for medium game

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wilmington NC
    Posts
    1,441
    The 380 drawn by 475AR looks to be easy to get good looking loads for lever gun subs.

    And FYI, standard 45 ACP loads can run over 3000 psi for muzzle pressure from a 5" gun.

    Code:
    Cartridge          : .44 Rem. Mag. (SAAMI)			
    Bullet             : .429 inch dia, 380 gr, 1.0 inch long			
    Seating Depth      : .550 inch			
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.725 inch = 43.82 mm			
    Barrel Length      : 17.5 inch = 444.5 mm			
    
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested			
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand			
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet			
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.			
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !			
    			
    Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time			
                                          %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms			
    ---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------			
    Hodgdon TiteGroup                   50.1      7.3     0.47     950   100.0    38132     702   1.849  			
    Accurate Solo 1000                  71.0      7.0     0.46     950   100.0    36934     709   1.856  			
    Alliant RED DOT                     74.7      6.6     0.43     950   100.0    37547     717   1.859  			
    Accurate Solo 1250                  68.5      7.3     0.47     950   100.0    31688     722   1.891 			
    Alliant GREEN DOT                   69.7      6.9     0.45     950   100.0    34756     722   1.875 			
    Winchester 231                      55.0      7.4     0.48     950   100.0    32302     728   1.887 			
    Accurate Nitro 100                  68.5      6.4     0.41     950   100.0    34695     736   1.873 			
    Hodgdon Universal                   61.3      7.0     0.46     950   100.0    29785     751   1.919			
    Accurate No.2                       59.2      7.0     0.45     950   100.0    27006     772   1.933			
    Alliant UNIQUE                      60.1      6.9     0.45     950   100.0    24731     798   1.975			
    Alliant BULLSEYE                    53.2      6.3     0.41     950   100.0    25543     801   1.953			
    Hodgdon Longshot                    44.9      8.1     0.52     950   100.0    22016     841   2.010			
    Hodgdon HS-6                        46.4      8.2     0.53     950   100.0    21294     861   2.023			
    Accurate No.5                       41.2      7.6     0.49     950   100.0    19892     911   2.052			
    Alliant POWER PISTOL                50.7      7.2     0.47     950   100.0    17569    1011   2.114
    And here is a table with the powders predicted to be under the SAAMI limit at 1050 fps

    Code:
    Accurate No.2                       70.1      8.3     0.54    1050   100.0    38659     883   1.704  	
    Alliant UNIQUE                      71.8      8.3     0.54    1050   100.0    34599     924   1.743 	
    Winchester WAP                      58.9      9.2     0.59    1050   100.0    34148     925   1.740 	
    Alliant BULLSEYE                    63.6      7.5     0.49    1050   100.0    35355     934   1.731  	
    Hodgdon Longshot                    53.0      9.5     0.62    1050   100.0    30870     955   1.770 	
    Alliant HERCO                       77.4      8.7     0.56    1050   100.0    31762     956   1.769 	
    Hodgdon HS-6                        54.7      9.7     0.63    1050   100.0    29760     972   1.780	
    Lovex D036                          48.4      8.9     0.58    1050   100.0    27468    1027   1.806	
    Accurate No.5                       48.4      8.9     0.58    1050   100.0    27487    1027   1.806	
    Alliant POWER PISTOL                59.1      8.4     0.54    1050   100.0    23817    1129   1.864
    Last edited by P Flados; 12-28-2022 at 03:35 AM.

  2. #42
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    72
    475AR and P Flados - I am simply amazed. The data you have provided is exactly what I needed. I was NOT expecting the level of detail you have provided. I have really learned something new in the past few days. Thank you. I have some thinking to do now.

    What are your thoughts on NOT having a crimp groove. It seems like that limits the ability to tweak OAL. Which may not be a bad thing. I don't expect this gun to have heavy recoil.
    Last edited by Pmc; 12-28-2022 at 09:00 AM.

  3. #43
    Vendor Sponsor

    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    7,394
    Quote Originally Posted by Pmc View Post
    475AR and P Flados - I am simply amazed. The data you have provided is exactly what I needed. I was NOT expecting the level of detail you have provided. I have really learned something new in the past few days. Thank you. I have some thinking to do now.

    What are your thoughts on NOT having a crimp groove. It seems like that limits the ability to tweak OAL. Which may not be a bad thing. I don't expect this gun to have heavy recoil.
    Going back to your opening post, you were talking about maximum damage at 50-100 yards. To even achieve enough spin to be halfway accurate enough to hunt with at 100 yards, yes there will be recoil. There is no free ride. Want to reach out to 100 yards with a shoulder launched heavy? Yes it's going to push back plenty enough to feel it.

    This may interest you if you are talking about PCing and no crimp groove, you got to hold those against the primer causing the boolit to jump crimp before the powder has a chance to develop a flame front. This modified crimp will do the job exceptionally well. It brought my ES down to 20fps and groups were very happy. https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post2239315
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  4. #44
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SW Florida
    Posts
    392
    Quote Originally Posted by Pmc View Post
    475AR and P Flados - I am simply amazed. The data you have provided is exactly what I needed. I was NOT expecting the level of detail you have provided. I have really learned something new in the past few days. Thank you. I have some thinking to do now.

    What are your thoughts on NOT having a crimp groove. It seems like that limits the ability to tweak OAL. Which may not be a bad thing. I don't expect this gun to have heavy recoil.
    I love doing this, drawing, testing and when everything works out and I screw up and get a great load that is accurate the feeling is like a drug. Then going out and actually using it to harvest game is the icing on the cake.
    As for the not using a crimp groove, if it were for a single shot, no problem, just iron out the bell and have at it. But for a lever gun I would not suggest not having a crimp groove. Don't forget you can have 2 crimp grooves on a bullet. I prefer to load bullets as long as will cycle thru the action. With the 400gr bullet I designed, I overlooked the col and extracting a live round. Good news is I can use the bullet in several different guns like my Dan Wesson 7445 supermag and my G2 TC 44 mag barrel.
    If you were to omit the crimp groove, then I would suggest using the NOE expander die and choosing an expander that allows for max case tension on the bullet without deforming the bullet usually. 001-.002 under final bullet sizing. Then try and come up with some sort of taper crimp die like one for the 44 automag or the 429DE.
    If you can get a chamber cast of your chamber and or figure out the throat then you can truly design a custom bullet for your gun.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wilmington NC
    Posts
    1,441
    I have made a bunch of custom NLG molds with no crimp groove. I can get a little amount of roll crimp without a problem.

    However, if I misadjust for a something more like a heavy roll crimp, it can be easy to get a bulge in the brass.

    I recommend getting a crimp groove if you can. It really helps with maintaining a consistent AOL during the loading process and it is more positive for preventing setback.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wilmington NC
    Posts
    1,441
    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    ...you got to hold those against the primer causing the boolit to jump crimp before the powder has a chance to develop a flame front[/URL]
    For something like a normal Full Power 44 or 454, the heavy crimp really helps with the "magnum pistol" powders typically used. With the extra heavy bullet and with powders like Titegroup, Red Dot, Green Dot & Unique, I see less concern about getting consistent ignition.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wilmington NC
    Posts
    1,441
    Quote Originally Posted by Pmc View Post
    I am simply amazed. The data you have provided is exactly what I needed. I was NOT expecting the level of detail you have provided.
    It is fun to chip in and help someone do something that you either 1. Did yourself, but know it could have been done better, or 2. Kind of wanted to do but never got a round to.

    It gets to be even more fun when an effort goes to completion and we get informed as to how well things went.

    I have dabbled in making my own molds. I have played around with less loud (but not suppressed) ammo. I no long hunt so I do not have little "reason" to do a quiet big bore. If I did hunt, a 454 Encore carbine with a fast twist would be very tempting.

  8. #48
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    72
    I understand. This project has been on the back burner for a long time and I'm not getting any younger.

    Based on the quickload numbers it should be about 9 lbs of free recoil. Not bad at all.

    Again, I think in terms of create the bullet, throat the barrel to match it. Since I am rebarreling I can pick the barrel length (17"), twist (1 in 24 using JBM's calculator).

    I am ok with having the crimp groove. The constraints are really the magazine length and sound signature. Both of which ya'll have pretty much laid a pathway to success.

  9. #49
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    7,136
    Just get the Lee collet crimp die. It will make its own crimp groove.

  10. #50
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Just get the Lee collet crimp die. It will make its own crimp groove.
    Not a bad idea. Thanks

  11. #51
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Coleman, Texas
    Posts
    86
    I like heavy bullets in 44 magnums and 444 marlins. I had NEI make me a Keith style bullet that weighs 379 grains with gas check and grease. I used the slowest powder I thought would work at that time. I used 680. Today I believe it has morphed into 1680. I was using it in a Bowen built Redhawk. The case was not long enough to worry about an overcharge of that powder but the bullet was still going over eleven hundred fps. It was pleasant to shoot and the bullet would go through any deer, elk, or bear on the planet. If I had it to do over I would leave off the gas check and lube grooves and powder coat the bullet. I would also use a JD Jones design rather than Keith because it would cycle through my Marlin 1894 44magnum rifle. I have since designed a couple of bullets on Mountain molds and had them cut. One is a swc 290grn and the other a Hollow point 270grn for use in my Marlin 444 XLR with the 1/20 twist. I use the 405 Beartooth for big foot and the soon to be cloned Mastodons.
    For the application you described I would not go faster than H4227 for powder and would take a good look at 1680 before calling it good.
    Also if you can find any "Ranch Dog" 44 molds they were designed to work in a Marlin barrel. I know he made some as heavy as 350grn. Good accurate bullets from his molds. Most were tumble lube design made by lee in their six cavity molds. I think NOE or Accurate Molds makes a clone of that bullet today.
    Good luck with what ever you chose. I hope you have lots of success.

  12. #52
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    72
    Thank you for your input,
    I am waiting for the barrel maker right now, but did get an NOE HTC 400 mold and some powder coat to play with this spring.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check