Rem 700 Dimension question

[TurnipEaterDown]

Does anyone know the nominal case head exposure measurement in a Rem 700 barrel & action?
Rimless case, barrel counterbore face (clearance bore for bolt nose) to the head of a seated case of proper length. This is what I want.

I have a factory take off 243 Win that this measures out to ~ 0.170" with a case fired to that chamber, and I think this is likely close to nominal design.

I have a New RemAge barrel (well known maker, no, not saying which one) that is grossly off from this, and I want to compare my measurement to a nominal if anyone has the nominal.

[M-Tecs]

https://riflebarrels.com/wp-content/...700_thread.pdf

[Nobade]

They're normally .155" to .165" deep. Plus about .010" for clearance between the back of the barrel and the front of the locking lugs. As long as your bolt hits the case head before the locking lugs hit the barrel your Remage setup will work fine.

[TurnipEaterDown]

First off: Thanks to M-Tecs and Nobade for responding, but Sorry, no, neither of these answers address my question.

Perhaps I didn't state my question very well to begin with, and that would be on me.

I will try to re-word it:

On a Rem 700 print or nominal gun: How Far is the case head expected to stick out of the chamber as measured from the deepest portion of the bolt nose counterbore, OR what would be the expected offset between a seated case head and the Face of the barrel shank? (I can use either value.)

Or, in yet other words: How much of the case, as measured from the base upwards toward the shoulder, is left unsupported by ("sticking out of") the chamber, in a built to print, or if easier: a nominal, Rem 700?

I don't need to know the depth of the bolt nose counterbore, it is reasonable in my problem barrel (~ 0.172 - 0.174" on this remage as measured while still assembled onto the action, as compared to 0.154" - 0.157" on a factory 243 Win take off).

The barrel I just received does not work fine.

This barrel was set up correctly: (in short) the go gauge passes, no go does not, and measuring fired brass ends up 0.001 longer to HS datum than another factory 8x57 rifle I have that functions flawlessly w/ any pressure level I care to put in it. I ordered the barrel to be cut for a standard lug, which I have.
So, not assembled wrong.

The indication is the chamber is some ~ 0.110 - 0.120 Shallow, leaving too much unsupprted brass sticking out of the chamber.
Everything was hunky dory w/ cast loads. Normal jacketed load produced a bulge ~ 0.007" diameter larger than the section immediately ahead of it, some 0.290" up the case from the head (in the non solid region) and likely darn near produced a blow out.

When I have overloaded a factory Rem 700 before (an "oopsy", not intentional), the bulge (pseudo "belt") is some 0.185 up from the head (indicating transition from solid portion of case to thin drawn wall region supported by the end of the chamber). i.e. The solid web created the bulge due to compressive flow outward (radially).

On this remage barrel, the bulge on the fired case (1 shot, moderate load) is ~ 0.290" from the base. The bulge is not on the solid head area, it is purely in the case wall, and the solid web area measures out just slightly less than the case OD just ahead of the bulge. Not an indication of overload.
(Thankfully I do observe the addage to not take a max load from one gun to another and just stuff it in.)
This moderate pressure load nearly ruptured the wall because the chamber is too shallow (short).

This barrel is made wrong, I know this, but if I can get the nominal value of the measurement I need, then I can put it in simplest words when I write of my "note of displeasure" to the barrel maker and politely ask them to fix it.

[M-Tecs]

I am having a hard time following. If your headspace go gauge closes and the no-go doesn't not it's not a chamber depth issue on the assembled rifle. The counterbore sounds to be in the wrong location. It could be from the barrel shanks being too short or the counterbore too deep????? Too much of a chamfer could be an issue also.

[rockrat]

Kind of sounds like the barrel is "short chambered" and the chamber is not deep enough

[M-Tecs]

Kind of sounds like the barrel is "short chambered" and the chamber is not deep enough

Per the OP the headspace is correct so it's not a "short chamber".

With correct headspace the only things that will allow for the bulging the OP has is insufficient material at the chambers end. That would be caused by the barrel shank being short or the counterbore being too deep or the chamfer being too large or a combination of two or three conditions I listed.

This barrel was set up correctly: (in short) the go gauge passes, no go does not, and measuring fired brass ends up 0.001 longer to HS datum than another factory 8x57 rifle I have that functions flawlessly w/ any pressure level I care to put in it................................................ .................................................. .................................................. ....................................
On this remage barrel, the bulge on the fired case (1 shot, moderate load) is ~ 0.290" from the base. The bulge is not on the solid head area, it is purely in the case wall, and the solid web area measures out just slightly less than the case OD just ahead of the bulge.

[TurnipEaterDown]

M-Tecs, I am going to pull the barrel off tonight or tomorrow and measure it off the action w/ a gauge & fired brass poked in the chamber, but best I can measure with the barrel installed on action (depth gauge reaching down the raceway), it is short chambered. About 0.110 - 0.120".
This leaves about 0.290" of case out the bottom of the chamber, and with the bolt face recessed 0.150 below the nose, it means that the bolt nose is only ~ 0.040 into that counterbore in the barrel (i.e. past the face of the shank). Nowhere near the distance it should be into that counterbore.

The HS is fine, as w/ the nut system the barrel can be screwed to any necessary depth into the action (excepting of course butting into the bolt, or falling off) to set the shoulder of the chamber at the proper distance from the bolt face to perfectly set the HS. It's a measurement of the total chamber, not just the reamed part of the barrel.

Short chamber -- your comment "...insufficient material at the chambers end..." is spot on: No material: just air, because the reamer didn't go in far enough. The generous thread length and variable nut position let you make up for a lot of tolerance, but in this case, it made up for more than tolerances.

In case I get it off and am completely embarrassed by my incorrect assessment, I will admit it... with pictures, or at least a mea culpa and perhaps another question.

Good news is the barrel maker already sent me a return label after talking to them for about 20 seconds. Quickest return authorization I think I ever got.

Thanks for the comment & effort to help though, and the drawing was handy for confirming the counterbore depth that I rough measured (w/ barrel on gun) is reasonable.

[Nobade]

The GO gauge or a factory round should be roughly (within +- .010") flush with the end of the barrel. Being a Remage, if it were short chambered and installed to headspace correctly, then way too much of the cartridge would stick out and do what you describe. I'd check that first.

[M-Tecs]

M-Tecs, I am going to pull the barrel off tonight or tomorrow and measure it off the action w/ a gauge & fired brass poked in the chamber, but best I can measure with the barrel installed on action (depth gauge reaching down the raceway), it is short chambered. About 0.110 - 0.120".
This leaves about 0.290" of case out the bottom of the chamber, and with the bolt face recessed 0.150 below the nose, it means that the bolt nose is only ~ 0.040 into that counterbore in the barrel (i.e. past the face of the shank). Nowhere near the distance it should be into that counterbore.

The HS is fine, as w/ the nut system the barrel can be screwed to any necessary depth into the action (excepting of course butting into the bolt, or falling off) to set the shoulder of the chamber at the proper distance from the bolt face to perfectly set the HS. It's a measurement of the total chamber, not just the reamed part of the barrel.

Short chamber -- your comment "...insufficient material at the chambers end..." is spot on: No material: just air, because the reamer didn't go in far enough. The generous thread length and variable nut position let you make up for a lot of tolerance, but in this case, it made up for more than tolerances.

In case I get it off and am completely embarrassed by my incorrect assessment, I will admit it... with pictures, or at least a mea culpa and perhaps another question.

Good news is the barrel maker already sent me a return label after talking to them for about 20 seconds. Quickest return authorization I think I ever got.

Thanks for the comment & effort to help though, and the drawing was handy for confirming the counterbore depth that I rough measured (w/ barrel on gun) is reasonable.

Remington 700's do not use a "variable nut system" like the Savages. Some aftermarket makers do offer this as an option. I missed that you were using the remage system.
https://www.eabco.net/Remage-Barrel-...s_p_16120.html
https://pacifictoolandgauge.com/1403...00-barrel-nuts
https://www.shilen.com/alternutbarrels.html

For the firearms that use this system they should come fully chambered for depth, however, some do offer a short chamber with this system so the end-user can us their own reamer.

Most "short chambered" barrels I have dealt with are about 0.100 short with no throat. Most if not all short-chambered barrels require a finish ream.

Who made the barrel and did the threading and chambering?

https://rifleshooter.com/2017/01/ins...nt%20receivers.
A short chambered barrel is one that has the threads cut to the factory specifications, a bolt nose recess (in the case of a Remington 700), and a chamber that is cut too shallow for final head space. This is the “short chamber” part of the barrel. The short chamber allows for variation in tolerances among different receivers. By reaming the chamber to the final depth, the short chambered barrel can be safely head spaced on the rifle.

https://rifleshooter.com/2015/03/reb...el-converison/
McGowen precision barrels, in Kalispell Montana, manufactures Remage barrels and barrel nuts. Using the McGown Remage barrel, Remage nut, and a few other simple tools, a Remington 700 can be barreled without using a lathe. This is one of the simplest bolt action barrel jobs that can be performed.

Alternatively, a Remington 700 can be barreled using a short chambered barrel without using a lathe. With this method, a reamer is used to adjust headspace. It requires more tools and a more sophisticated skill set than a Remage conversion.

Sounds like they sent you the out-spec. barrel or one that was designed to finish ream or the wrong one was ordered for the intended installation method?

[ulav8r]

Leave the gauge out, thread the barrel in until it encloses the bolt head and will go no further. Then back the barrel out about .010 and check the headspace. If it is short chambered it will be obvious. If it was supposed to be fully chambered, the barrel maker will need the measurement from the receiver face to the end of the bolt and to the bolt face.

[M-Tecs]

Leave the gauge out, thread the barrel in until it encloses the bolt head and will go no further. Then back the barrel out about .010 and check the headspace. If it is short chambered it will be obvious. If it was supposed to be fully chambered, the barrel maker will need the measurement from the receiver face to the end of the bolt and to the bolt face.

Correct the bolt face distance needs to be held to .010" or less. I missed when the OP stated this was a remage style barrel system. For that system the barrel maker doesn't need receiver face to the bolt face measurements. If the barrel maker doesn't offer a short chamber on this system it's clearly out of spec. If the barrel maker does offer a short chamber on the remage system the wrong one was shipped or ordered.

[TurnipEaterDown]

Multiple people replied while I was off doing things, and one of those things was pulling this 8x57 barrel and measuring it, and more measurements on a factory 243 Win barrel I have laying around for a 700.

Yes, consistent w/ measurements in assembled, when measured off the receiver this 8x57 remage barrel does hang the base of the brass out past the face of the barrel shank by 0.127". The no go hangs out 0.132".
So, they botched it.

The factory 243 hangs the brass out 0.004" and the go 0.005" (I always "knew" that barrel was below spec installed, as I always had to shim the shellholder by a piece of paper when resizing brass w/ the die bottoming out, and this 0.001" difference shows me in measurement what I had known before).
So, this comes out as a confirmation of what I always believed: the cartridge should be within a few thousandths of flush with the face of the shank. Same as what Nobade offers in post #9, and he provided the measurement of +- 0.010.

It's funny: ulav8r in post #10 states basically how I would usually assemble these: Receiver wrench on receiver, Bolt in action, run barrel in until it abuts bolt nose, withdraw bolt, insert go gauge in bolt and ease into chamber, unthread the barrel until the go gauge will just close, mark barrel, back off a small portion of rotation (I usually just back it out a few degrees as I like the HS tight), snug nut, then recheck the go, check w/ no-go, and if all good, tighten it up.
People have told me: skip the part about abutting the barrel on the bolt nose, you don't need to, just run down on the go. So, being trusting of the maker and advice, I skipped a couple steps in my more robust (failsafe) process.
Darned if I wasn't right all along and should have not completely trusted the advice I was given, nor the barrel maker.

I won't say who made the barrel in an open forum, but it most certainly wasn't a shade tree shop.
Nowhere in there webpage describing their Remington prefit barrels does it say that a finish reamer is required, nor in their linked article w/ a step by step on teh installation process.
My bet is that they took a short chambered barrel (M-Tecs notes some makers provide these for Remington, and that is something I did not know until now), and just shipped it off to me.
I have used short chambered barrels on M 98 Mauser actions before and finished by hand, but here again I wasn't prepared to have this barrel provided this way.

M-Tecs (and others), I appreciate your comments. I knew what this problem was, but now I know more than that.

Thanks All.

[rockrat]

You're welcome. Hope you get it resolved

[Nobade]

I have worked with a few of those short chambered Remage barrels. They are indeed made that way so the gunsmith who fits it can use his own reamer to get the throat that is desired. There is nothing wrong with it as such, but the person installing it needs to know what they are doing. I'd just take it to a decent shop and have them install it correctly.
I do agree with M Techs, they really shouldn't make them that way. Either no chamber at all or ream it to full depth so it's ready to install by the home hobbyist. That is really the point to them anyway, otherwise build a barrel with a shoulder like it is supposed to be.