Expanding lube

[Soundguy]

for hard sizing. especially making a case into a different case.. it's hard to get better than imperial sizing wax.

for regular neck expansions.. talc/graphite.. etc...

[gwpercle]

Anneal first then use graphite is the process I would use.

When expanding case necks you might want to try not annealing ... if the shoulder gets softened (annealed) the shoulder will collapse when the neck is expanded ...
If you anneal , make sure the shoulder doesn't get softened .
I would just forego annealing at this point and see how they do.
Gary

[G W Wade]

Never had any luck with Motor Mica, Mostly use Imperial Sizing Wax for everything. Steve Herret used VO5 hair dressing when he made 30 and 357 Herret brass GW

[wmitty]

Bag Balm is a whole lot cheaper than Imperial sizing wax and very close to being just as effective.

[oconeedan]

OS OK, that is a very nice annealing machine!

[OS OK]

OS OK, that is a very nice annealing machine!

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. Here's a short video of it's first run, since then I've got my timing down just right.



This was a dual effort build with Harry Tobin over in Pennsylvania. We spent about 6 weeks investigating various methods and such and locating parts on the Amazon...we were in 'Tinkerer's Heaven'.

[oconeedan]

[a.squibload]

Search swaging forum for lube, here's one:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post5432098

50/50 Lanolin/castor oil, heat to mix, simple. I also use it for sizing cases, tiny bit for each case, wipe off with a rag.
It washes off easy with soap & water, shake cases in a plastic jar. I haven't expanded necks with it but should work fine.

[steveu]

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. Here's a short video of it's first run, since then I've got my timing down just right.



This was a dual effort build with Harry Tobin over in Pennsylvania. We spent about 6 weeks investigating various methods and such and locating parts on the Amazon...we were in 'Tinkerer's Heaven'.

That’s a great looking annealer!

[TurnipEaterDown]

Thanks for all of your replies, I knew I would get good answers here. I always have!
TurnipEaterDown, how do you classify STP?
I do plan to run all formed brass in the vibratory cleaner afterwards.

Apparently, there is more than one formulation of "STP", or at least there are STP products for different purposes related to lubricating oil.

STP literature states that their product includes an anti wear agent based on a Zinc compound, and that there are lubricants in the additive.

I do not know all that much about STP oil additive myself, but I know that when a one time top drag race engine builder like Joe Mondello (died a few years back) would state in his literature that STP was not a lubricant, to never use STP as an assembly lube, and never put it in an engine at all, I pretty much abided by it.
Joe advised good oil, good assembly greases, and priming pumps before first fire. STP on crank bearings was a good way to net a rebuild on the lower end within a short time of first start.
If it isn't itself a lubricant (seems to be some contradictory info out there), and it won't survive bearing loads on a new engine start up, I myself wouldn't use it as a lubricant.

I do have an extensive background as well in automotive, and can tell you most any manufacturer will advise not using any of these additives, and it's not for the 'buy our product', nor 'we're hiding the 200 mpg carburetor in Joe Jones' desk' conspiracies either. There are multiple additive packages for many uses, and some are tested scientifically, and many are not. Additives have to go somewhere, and some of the places they go are not compatible to their behavior, and coatings created under heat and/or load may be detrimental to continual operation of some interfaces.

Now, when an engine is about ker-plunk anyway, I suppose some on the shelf additives may get the last drop or two from the udder, and I myself have dumped assembly lube in an oil change or two on low buck cars I had in my younger years when the engine oil came out sparkly with metallic debris. Afterwards bearing knock would quiet for a while most often. Everything else is somewhat secondary when you know you have loose bearings and a tendency for the engine to overheat...

Apparently there are multiple people on the forum that use STP for case lube w/ satisfaction. I will not in any way demean them, their habits, nor accuse them of ill-practice.
Maybe STP is a great case lube, I would have never tried it because it is never in my possession.

It just isn't an actual lubricant from what I have been taught about high load sliding interfaces, so I noted it is not a lubricant. It is a lubricant additive that some people (apparently) swear by, and some swear at.

[scooterwrench]

The worse thing about STP as an oil additive is it raises cold oil viscosity to the point where it inhibits drain back to the oil pan. It will actually cause the pump to pump the pan dry.
It is a good additive to use in flat tappet engines when you can't get ZDDP oil but never in the amounts they used to recommend. 1oz per quart of oil is plenty.

I am a clockmaker and I have found that STP is the absolute best lube for mainsprings where the coils slide against each other as the spring winds and unwinds. It doesn't seem to work for the rotating pivots in a clock.

Polishing your dies is probably the best thing you can do to reduce friction. Some of the modern Lee dies are rough as a cob inside.

[a.squibload]

Maybe STP works in clocks 'cause they don't get so hot?

+1 on polishing dies, steel or aluminum, don't know about brass. I use Clover fine valve compound or
Mother's Mag Wheel polish, haven't tried Simichrome in moulds but should work also.
Also polish hollowpoint stems, helps a lot. Boolits drop out.

I am a devotee of Marvel Mystery Oil in engines, no definitive tests but seems to be good in the cold!

[scooterwrench]

STP only works for lubing the mainsprings,way to viscous for any other parts of the clock.

Try finishing up with white rouge on a felt buffing bob for the inside of your dies,expander balls and anything else you need to work smoothly. Puts a mirror finish on.

Marvel Mystery Oil is a great top cylinder lubricant,does reduce carbon build up on valve stems,heads and piston crowns as well as lubricating the rings and valve guides. I've never added it to the crankcase.
My grandaddy poured it in every fuel tank he owned,including his airplanes.

[abunaitoo]

Imperial sizing wax is great stuff, but kind of expensive.
I found that Kiwi Mink oil worked as good or better.
The tin was three times bigger than Imperial wax.
BUT................
They got sued and had to take it off the market.
Wrote to Kiwi and they sent me a coupon for their shoe conditioner.
They said it was "almost" the same thing.
It works, but not as good as the mink oil.
Works about the same as then Imperial wax.
I've seen Mink oil wax on Amazon, but never tried any.
Still have lots of the Shoe conditioner.

[NObamain2012]

Avoid using new winchester brass due to short head to shoulder dimensions.

[rusty marlin]

Options in the order I have had the most success with:
1) Anneal and fire form.
2) Anneal, step expand with increasing button sizes using graphite and annealing between 6.5 and 7mm
3) Anneal single step expand with Imperial sizing die wax