Why premium molds?

[Gunslinger1911]

I also started with Lee molds back in the 70's. As with everything Lee, you may have to futz with it a bit to work correctly. Not a huge issue to me, I like to tinker.
Late 2000's I found this site, read about the higher end molds, thought I'd give em a try.
Discovered MP and my bank acct has never been the same ! (and RCBS, Lyman, etc)
What you get with these molds is much better selection in weight and diam. And hollow points !!!
Also, at least MP has molds that are as exact a copy as possible of Elmers and others
Lee has their cutters made to last the longest - just about all the edges are rounded.
High end - sharp edged driving bands, the front of a SWC will cut a perfect round hole in paper or ? (whatever)
MP and NOE have hollow point molds that are as easy to cast as solids.
And there is the pride of ownership - high end are a thing of beauty, esp the brass MP
I bought a 2 cav HP from MP never having the intention of casting with it - just wanna look at it
A fella could cast a whole life with Lee - not a problem.
But eventually ya owe yourself a "splurge".

[gwpercle]

Life's way too short to not try top shelf at least once before you go ...

Lee moulds are satisfactory ... casting with a NOE is a walk in the park on a sunny day with your sweetie holding you hand and her telling you ...
... "I Love You" !

Go for it before you get too old .
Gary

[barnabus]

I have never owned a Lee mould of any kind they simply don’t make what I shoot. They do make hit and miss moulds that do what their designed to do more or less.

i agree Lee moulds are a crap shoot. IMO they are not worth the little amount of money they charge. They are light weight with terrible small handles.

[JSnover]

Lee molds are a great place to start. They don't cost as much and if you ruin one you haven't flushed as much money down the drain.
Most of the molds I own now were made by other companies but the Lees are still in my cabinet, working as well as they ever did. And gwpercle is right: Life's way too short to not try top shelf at least once before you go ...

[Willie T]

Lee molds are a great place to start. They don't cost as much and if you ruin one you haven't flushed as much money down the drain.
Most of the molds I own now were made by other companies but the Lees are still in my cabinet, working as well as they ever did. And gwpercle is right: Life's way too short to not try top shelf at least once before you go ...

Thank all of y’all for replying to my post. Ive been kicking around the idea of a premium mold to cast rifle bullets since I started snooping around on this forum. Y’all are gonna cost me some money.
Willie

[Mk42gunner]

Willie,

In my opinion the best molds that I have ever used are original Hensley & Gibbs molds from San Diego. I have not used any made after they moved to Oregon, but rumor has it that they are just as good. They are spendy, but a joy to use.

The follow on companies that bought the name and tooling aren't quite up to snuff.

I have not cast with either NOE or Accurate molds, but the ones I have seen at auctions look like very good tools. Non of them were in calibers I was interested in though.

Always willing to help you spend your hard earned money,

Robert

[MT Gianni]

Why premium molds? I started casting in 93. If I had a Lee design I liked when I was ready to upgrade to a 6 cavity, often the design had been dropped. I have a few and Lee has gotten much better because of the group buys from this board demanding they build it according to their print. Lyman and Saeco have not always followed suit. NOE, Accurate and MP molds have closer tolerances. In the 50's and 60's shooters were advised to mark bullet noses with a punch to easily distinguish between the cavities. No one talks about that with the tolerances from custom mold makers. It all depends on how you want to shoot. If you want the tightest groups your gun and shooting technique can give you, it demands close tolerances. If you want to make things go bang and hit paper plates @ 25 yards that is fine too. I like to be able to order a mold and have all cavities cast the diameter and weight stated by the manufacturer. Lee won't get me there.

[justindad]

How much cavity-to-cavity variance exists in a Saeco 4-banger?

[Jeff Michel]

Lee Molds are pretty good, just limited variety. Sort of like the Model T of bullet molds, you can have any color you like, so long as it's black.
Personally, Accurate molds are tough to beat quality or variety wise. He's the one of the very few mold maker that will help you design your own bullet style and make it to whatever size you require. Brooks are another excellent mold. NOE, though of superbly made are primarily stock items so from a "custom" made standpoint they really aren't. In all fairness though, Al's selection of molds are awesome to behold. I have many and are well pleased with every one of them. Treat yourself to a higher quality mold and you will never regret the money spent. The break in period seems shorter and the amount of rejects are less. I'm certainly not bashing Lee, I have dozens of Lee molds and some of my favorite profiles come from them. Come on in the waters fine.

[white eagle]

Mass produced do not always fit your rifle and needs
there are many more molds and makers than there were
when I started a short time ago
why custom? getting something different and different, maybe

[Rich/WIS]

Have had and used molds by LEE, RCBS, NOE and Lyman. All my current molds are LEE 6 cavity for my and my friends handguns, and NOE 5 cavity for my rifles. All are a pleasure to use and produce excellent bullets. I have no experience with the current LEE double cavities so can't comment on them, but if I needed double cavity and LEE made it I wouldn't hesitate before buying one.

[Elmer Fudd]

Why custom?
Bullet shape/design choices
Both GC and PB in one mould, all other design parameters being the same
Mix of designs, even diameters, in one mould
Maybe a dozen other esoteric matters to list but all are trumped by:
Ease of dropping castings from the mould.
I am one of those guys on this site who has 50 moulds. Necessary, not at all. Just a hobby, like gun collecting. I only own one mould with historical significance, all the others are modern manufacture. Two are brass, the rest aluminum except for a two cavity 429421 for 44 spl and a 270 SAA which are iron. The brass ones are seldom used because they are heavy. They hold heat well and cast wonderful projectiles, but more than either, they drop bullets like they are trying to escape. Ditto every NOE and LBT (most so the LBTs, every one of em from 30 to 50 caliber). These "custom" moulds are so much fun to use that I enjoy the casting as much as, or nearly as much as, shooting. That may indicate my mindset and mental health status, I don't know.
But the Lees, which I have used quite a bit from 28 to 50, just don't provide me the same joy. If the prices for my favorites were the same as the Lees, the selection would be obvious. But if the price of steak was 5x that of a turkey burger, wouldn't you still buy the steak?

Note that I offer no shame to the man who is satisfied with Lee. In fact, I admire the man who can do more with less. I am lazy and only like to do things I enjoy, so I only use moulds that drop bullets eagerly.

[Winger Ed.]

if I needed double cavity and LEE made it I wouldn't hesitate before buying one.

I'm not a big Lee fan, but I got one of theirs for 9mm so my neighbor could go to the range with me and have plenty to shoot.
I wouldn't use them to shoot for the Bianchi Cup, but the mold is OK, and the boolits are just fine.

[Willie T]

Man y’all are enablers. This thread is gonna cost me…. Winger Ed, I’m about an hour and a half south of you in Trinity county.
Willie T

[megasupermagnum]

Given enough time, you will run out of Lee molds to try. At least in the calibers I own, I bought every Lee mold they had for them within reason. I've not owned them all at once, but through selling and trading I've used most of their models, and it's really not that many variations. In normal 30 caliber rifles for example they offer 5 different molds, but really they are the same bullet with different noses. Break that down farther, and most going for target are likely only interested in 2 or 3 of them. Hunters are likely only interested in the 2 flat nosed ones.

After that there's no where to go but other brands. I guess the question of "why premium brands?" is better answered with "why not Lyman or Saeco?", which are the only other still common production molds. That answer is quite simple. Lyman and Saeco cost as much or often more than the "premium" molds, and for nothing. As much as Lee is knocked, I think they make better quality molds than Lyman today. I've never had a Lyman mold I was completely satisfied with, even old ones. You don't hear much about Saeco molds, and I've never heard much for rave reviews. Some of their molds are $250+ which I can't imagine wanting to buy. For that price you can buy some classic molds like Hensley and Gibbs, but that's for another discussion.

The next step up from Lee is going to be the semi-custom molds of either Arsenal or NOE. Both of those brands have a good selection, and each has its niche. Arsenal is the lower cost option kind of filling the gap between Lee and NOE in price. NOE on the other hand is not overly expensive, most of their molds being around the $100-$150 mark, and their real benefit is their hollow point molds. Some don't like the NOE hollow point pin setup, I've had minimal issues with it myself. MP molds might be considered in this too, but they have burned so many bridges now I won't ever consider buying from them.

In the blackpowder realm there are some oddball names too. Lee makes some good ones, but a lot are poor designs. One area Lee dominates the market with with round ball molds. Nobody out there makes a mold that casts as round a ball, and with as minimal a sprue as a Lee mold. Their only downside is they only make a set number of sizes, but Lee covers most people. If you need something else JT ball moulds will make you ANY size round ball mold. You just specify the diameter. Moose molds makes some oddball molds for different blackpowder guns.

If you ask me the top of the heap in quality today is Accurate molds. The greatest thing with them is if you can imagine it, they can make it. I send a drawing of the bullet I want, and he makes it. Not only that, the quality of these is unreal. Most bullet molds are fine. You go through 10-20 of them swapping and selling and you are bound to find a bad one. I don't know ANYONE who has ever had a bad mold from Accurate molds. I honestly don't know how he is able to be as accurate as he is. The dimensions are always spot on. I've never heard of a mold with a less than perfect gas check shank size. The consistency from cavity to cavity is unreal. The design of these molds from the venting to the alignment pins is top shelf. And the amazing thing is they really don't cost that much either. Prices between Accurate and NOE are comparable. The one and only downside is Accurate does not do hollow point or hollow base molds. You have to send them out to do that, and then the price climbs fast.

All that said, there are shining stars from Lee. As I said, Lee round ball molds are my go-to if they have the size I want. For ease of casting it is hard to beat Lee. Their molds are light, and they are easy to control temp. A lot of how well a mold casts has more to do with bullet design too, and Lee designs are made to cast easy. An example of a tricky one might be the NOE 311-179-FN. It's a great mold, and great shooting bullet, but the thing is a bear to cast. All those tiny and deep lube grooves mean you have to be spot on to get perfect fill out. That brings me to another shining star, the Lee 309-170-F. Try as I might, I am not finding a better overall bullet than this for 30 caliber rifles. There are better ones for high velocity, but I can't find fault with this bullet design for what it is. It just plain shoots.

[Willie T]

Thank all of you who shared your insight with me. I ordered an NOE 5 cavity mold yesterday. It is a 124 grain gas check conventional lube 9mm mold. Mold style was the main reason. I will continue using the 6 cavity Lee I have but I want to push a soft alloy fast for expansion in the 9 and gas checking is the simplest way I know to get there. Thank you all again.
Willie

[kevin c]

I don’t think you’ll regret your new purchase.

There’re lots of reasons people cast, so there’re as many reasons to buy different molds. If, for example, you’re cost conscious, just plinking or want to be more self reliant, an inexpensive mold that drops bullets that are “good enough” works. But maybe you need more accuracy out of your ammo, or want trouble free production of a lot of bullets, or have an uncommon chambering, or just appreciate fine workmanship. A premium mold helps satisfy such requirements.

I have Lee molds in all the common pistol calibers I own; they are my SHTF/TEOTWAWKI back ups. But what I use are Accurate and MP molds, especially the latter. I shoot in volume in competition, so a trouble free multi cavity mold that drops high quality slugs consistently and easily and in a suitable design is what I’m looking for.

The quality of design and workmanship in these molds is what makes them good at what I want out of them. I can also see the pride of workmanship and determination to produce a better product that make up the mindsets in these very small, one man operations, maybe different from a company like Lee, which can clearly be innovative, but seems cost conscious (and therefore compromising) in their design, manufacturing and QC.

Some examples from personal experience. The Lees I have are eight cavity aluminum block molds. They have a clever cammed sprue cutter that really makes it a breeze cutting that long sprue, but the hard cam predictably gouges the block it bears against. Both Accurate and MP multi cavity molds use Lee handles and have the cammed cutter, but also have a flat head screw set flush in the block where the cam bears, preventing damage. The plates are steel, whereas the Lee plates are a much lighter alloy. The MP plates are honed quite flat, and those shipped with my latest molds are upgraded with the leading edge relieved to prevent scoring the block tops through careless closure () The Accurate and MP have more vent lines than the Lee molds.

TL;DR

It’s not always necessary, but you can get more (and maybe in no other way) by paying more.

[Iron369]

A lot of people responded with pretty much the same answers. I say…
Because I buy whatever I want with my money. (That wasn’t meant to sound rude). There is luxury options in nearly all things. Buy whatever you want.
Why buy steak when the government says crickets will provide you with all the nutrients needed? lol

[Wooserco]

I'm currently casting with a Lee 148 gr. button nose wad cutter mold. The cavities are all over the place. None drop consistant diameters. They range from 0.358-0.360 plus from some cavities. They all have good fill out. The mold was dropping good, sprues cut great, no leading on the sprue plate nor the mold blocks. But the difference in diameter was concerning me. I didn't weigh them, because the difference in diameter tells me that they would be far differenent.

My question is this: for not much more money, is the MP 8 cavity mold that much better than the Lee? How can he do it if Lee can't?

I'm tempted to drop all 800 of the Lees back into the casting pot and order the MP Mold.

[Harter66]

First I have moulds from 11 makers both current and gone . Iron ,brass ,and aluminum.

This is worn out but ............
Lee makes a tool for a job and it does the job .

I will admit that the better moulds aren't always without fault .

I have a Lee 6 banger in 401-175 and had doubles from RCBS, Lyman , and LBT in the same weight that didn't shoot
any better or any faster than the Lee that cast over twice as many per pour and per time allowed . Those went on to
others . That is the only one that comes to mind in that status .

I have Lee moulds and most of them are pretty good.......with the little final fit and finish needs met .
The 2 .275 RB are awful , I couldn't get the 458-405 to shoot , might have been me .

As far as gang moulds weigh in , pun intended, you cast 3 sessions with an H&G and you'll understand the lore . Mine is an 8 cav at about 6# empty and gulps up a half lb every pour but it drops 8 .453 195.8 to .196.6 gr #130 SWC I get about 30-35 pours back feeding sprues. The pot is down and my arm needs a break . If I do that 4x there's 1000 keepers on the bench .
It took me most of 30 tries to get the brand new MP MiHec 462-420 PB/HB brass to patina enough to run . Now that it does it casts 2 identical bullets that like to be pushed hard , at least in a 45-70 its hard . 417 gr PB 380 gr HB.

I have Cramer , RCBS, Lyman, Rapine , Mountain Mold, TC , NOE ,and others . I have them in 1,2,3,4,5,6,&8 cavity versions . Lee shines when you start with them , need a bunch bullets that will be used in "the cast bullets intended way" , and money is a driver . I don't have but one of them that runs outside of the 1500 -1800 fps box .

I have at least 3 NOE,2 RCBS & Lyman rifle bullets that will run right into jacket speeds .

All I can say is , sometimes all you have to do is make a 300 mile drive in a DeVille appreciate the difference between it and the Impala. But you HAVE to DRIVE the Caddi to see why it's not just a fancy Chevy . Buy 1 new NOE and a used Lyman and RCBS. You'll understand all of the nuances that can be described but don't make sense if you're not touching them .