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Thread: Ballard #2 .38 Long

  1. #1
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Ballard #2 .38 Long

    I've steered clear of the smaller Ballard #2 rifles that were so common in .38 Long RF/CF, and .32 Long RF/CF for a long time now. But I've had a nice early pre 1881 J.M. Marlin #2 action sitting on a shelf in my safe for awhile in hopes I'd stumble across a barrel, and parts to maybe assemble another #2.
    Just early this week I got a call from a friend saying he had some parts to sell that he always figured he'd get around to using, but knew he never would. So he sent me pictures of some stocks, forearms, levers, and a couple barrels. One barrel was in .38 Long, and I was immediately interested. A buttstock with buttplate was in excellent shape also, and had a matching numbers forearm too! So I sent him off some money, and today the barrel, forearm, and buttstock arrived!
    Of course I had to immediately try the barrel on my action, even though it's a miracle for any Marlin Ballard barrel to index up, and headspace correctly on any other Ballard action. I've had it happen once in numerous attempts. But I spun the barrel down by hand and it stopped about 1/8th turn shy of perfect. I clamped it in my barrel vise, and put my action wrench on the action, and bingo!, it indexed right up! I reinstalled the breech block and tried closing it, and it closed, but with enough resistance to know it was more than the usual .003" crush I like. I removed the breech block, and stoned the face until some BP pitting on the face was almost gone, and tried it again. The fit was perfect, and as tight as a safe vault lockup!
    I grabbed the wood and tried the buttstock fit. It too was slightly tight where it slips inside the receiver, and a few minutes with a file removed enough internal wood to fit like a glove. Then I tried the forearm, and the hanger screw wouldn't quite thread into the barrel, as the rear mating edge was tight against the receiver. A few more strokes with the file on the rear edge, and it fit and the screw went right in.
    Grabbed an original rear barrel sight from my parts, and a front blade, and tapped those in too. I need to make up an 8" 5/6" through bolt to hold the stock on, and make a firing pin to replace a missing pin, and it's done! The rifling is excellent, and bore is very nice. This one is a pretty rare #2 action as it's centerfire only. Almost all #2 Ballards had a firing pin that could be turned upside down to convert from rimfire to centerfire. A small number were centerfire only like this one. .38 Long is easily made from .38 Special cases, but using a heeled bullet as they're larger diameter at around .360"-.363" bullets. I've got a couple NEI molds for this bullet, so loading for it will be cheap and easy!








  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    No need for you to buy a lottery ticket this week, I think you have used up your available luck.

    I think that parts gun will turn out very nice.

    Robert

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master


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    That is a fine looking #2 you have put together.
    1st Ballard we bought is a 38 Long.. Many days have been spent with that rifle down in some river bottoms and field edges popping ground hogs, racoons and other farm pests.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    You got lucky! I've never had a Ballard barrel not original to the receiver turn up in the right place. Everything else fell into place well also. Should be a really nice #2.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    Patience pays off! That will be a fun little rifle - I look forward to hearing how it shoots! I have a #2 rolling block in 38RF. I've shot it using a CF breech block.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    I also have never put a used barrel on a different Ballard action and had it index up properly either! They always need some amount of work, which usually involves adjusting headspace, and rechambering. So it's almost a miracle to have one fit so well. And my friend said the barrel, stock, and forearm all came off much later Marlin Firearms marked Ballard, so this pre 1881 JM Marlin is far from close in time frame.
    Have to check today to see if I have the right extractors in my parts, and will crank out a new firing pin as this action is missing the firing pin.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master
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    One of my friends here at Chinquapin SV has #2 in 38 long… he snaked it away from me at a big auction.

    Anyway, he makes cases out of 38 Spl brass and uses round balls and HBWCs for projectiles and out to 50 or 100 yds it’s amazingly accurate. He’s a super shooter, but the gun has the inherent accuracy to deliver for him.

    Your FrankenBallard came out a lot nicer than mine (although Frankie and I are still working on getting finished). I’m in awe at the way your mish mash of parts fit together. Frankie needed some help to get all of his parts to play nicely together. At this point I need to fit and finish a Rodney Storie cast lever (single trigger Pacific style), open up the fore end barrel channel for the heavier barrel, then polish and finish.

    Your Phriendly ‘Phibian
    "It aint easy being green!"

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Vall - just FYI. You may have seen this video I made a while back. I took an original 38 rimfire cartridge and refreshed it. Pulled the bullet, emptied the black powder, cleaned out the case and reprimed the rim. Then put the original powder back in, relubed and seated the original bullet. Then went to the range and fired it over the chronograph. I didn't prime the rim as well as I should have. It took a couple hits before it went off. But it was a great learning experience

    https://youtu.be/A8T1q0mSDHE

  9. #9
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    One of my friends here at Chinquapin SV has #2 in 38 long… he snaked it away from me at a big auction.

    Anyway, he makes cases out of 38 Spl brass and uses round balls and HBWCs for projectiles and out to 50 or 100 yds it’s amazingly accurate. He’s a super shooter, but the gun has the inherent accuracy to deliver for him.

    Your FrankenBallard came out a lot nicer than mine (although Frankie and I are still working on getting finished). I’m in awe at the way your mish mash of parts fit together. Frankie needed some help to get all of his parts to play nicely together. At this point I need to fit and finish a Rodney Storie cast lever (single trigger Pacific style), open up the fore end barrel channel for the heavier barrel, then polish and finish.

    Your Phriendly ‘Phibian
    My first Ballard was the same #2 in .38 Long, but had a rotten bore. I also used round balls with .38 Special brass, but it was such a poor bore it never shot well.
    I have two .38 Long heeled bullet molds, so one of the two will work. One is an original old Ideal at 120 gr., and the other an NEI 140 gr.

    I dug out a spare extractor today, and it was a .38 extractor! Fit like a glove! Then I got my drill rod out which I bought for firing pins as it has the correct diameter. Cut off a piece and chucked it in the drill press and turned down the tip to fit, and then marked and cut it to length. Cut the retaining notch with a rat tail file and finished it.
    Still need to go buy a 8" long 5/16" bolt to build the through bolt, and then it's a complete rifle!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndnchf View Post
    Vall - just FYI. You may have seen this video I made a while back. I took an original 38 rimfire cartridge and refreshed it. Pulled the bullet, emptied the black powder, cleaned out the case and reprimed the rim. Then put the original powder back in, relubed and seated the original bullet. Then went to the range and fired it over the chronograph. I didn't prime the rim as well as I should have. It took a couple hits before it went off. But it was a great learning experience

    https://youtu.be/A8T1q0mSDHE

    Well this #2 is not the typical Ballard reversible firing pin breech block. It's a centerfire only block Steve. Likely the rifle it came from was either a .44-40, or a .32-20 as those didn't get the usual reversible firing pins. So it wont see any rimfire cartridges at all.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy Ajohns's Avatar
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    That, is nice setup!
    I have a Mini Martini in 380 long and have had a lot of fun shooting it. I hope you have success with this beauty

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by marlinman93 View Post
    Well this #2 is not the typical Ballard reversible firing pin breech block. It's a centerfire only block Steve. Likely the rifle it came from was either a .44-40, or a .32-20 as those didn't get the usual reversible firing pins. So it wont see any rimfire cartridges at all.
    That will be much easier! I look forward to hearing your progress ��

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    Possibly one of the more "educational" rifles I've been exposed to. Dad's needed a re-sleeve to .38 LC, and it keyed us in to the fun you can have with stuff that (A.) is not a .22 rimfire, and (B.) doesn't make an earth-shattering "KABOOM!" and beat the snot out of you. Ended up with one of Accurate's wide BP lube groove molds around the 150-150 range as I recall and shoot it with Triple 7. Expensive lesson - it led directly to my Martini Cadet.
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    The .38 Long and .32 Long often get looked down upon. But in a Ballard #2 with their reversible firing pin, or CF only firing pin this is a wonderful cartridge, and can be extremely accurate if the rifle has a great bore. Bullets are the biggest issue, as you really need to be set up to cast since almost nobody sells heeled bullets for these two cartridges.
    Used to be a company that sold these bullets, and even sold loaded ammo, but I'm not sure if they're still around? The only place people can buy these heeled bullets today is Bear Creek Supply, and they offer just one bullet type in a 140 gr.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    Old West sells a variety of heel bullets, molds and loading gear. I've used his .38 heel bullets and they worked well in my .38 rimfire rolling block.
    https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop...s/cast-bullets

  16. #16
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndnchf View Post
    Old West sells a variety of heel bullets, molds and loading gear. I've used his .38 heel bullets and they worked well in my .38 rimfire rolling block.
    https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop...s/cast-bullets
    Thanks Steve!
    I have a couple of his molds, but didn't know he also sold cast bullets? Another great resource for those who don't cast!

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy Ajohns's Avatar
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    "The only place people can buy these heeled bullets today is Bear Creek Supply, and they offer just one bullet type in a 140 gr."

    Quote from above.

    Have you had good luck with these? So far I haven't, but would like to know others' experiences because I have a lot of them.
    And yes, Old West is a very good resource for sure.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    I'm green with envy, Vall. (Maybe not as green as our Phibian Phriend, but green nonetheless!)

    I too have a spare #2 CF action, firing pin same as yours, with no clue as to what cartridge it fired originally. (It came with a .40-70 barrel on it, of all things.) Your project gave me an idea - barrel it with a .357 dimensioned unit and chamber it with a .38 Special reamer, but stopped well short of full depth so no dim bulbs would ever shoot .38Spl +P rounds in it. Call it a catchy name and stamp that on the barrel. (.38 Weeny comes to mind, haha!) Use standard .38 dies and molds to build low pressure fodder for it with shortened .38 brass.

    I didn't realize CF-only #2's were rare. Thanks for the tutorial.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master AntiqueSledMan's Avatar
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    Hello marlinman93,

    I did a cartridge conversion with a Pietta 1858 to .44 Colt and swaged the heel.
    It was a little die I made, very simple process.
    Here is what I plan on using for the 38 Long Colt.

    AntiqueSledMan.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 38 Forming Heel Die.jpg  

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    Congratulations!! Great looking rifle.
    NRA Benefactor Member NRA Golden Eagle

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check