Ballard #2 .38 Long

[marlinman93]

I'm green with envy, Vall. (Maybe not as green as our Phibian Phriend, but green nonetheless!)

I too have a spare #2 CF action, firing pin same as yours, with no clue as to what cartridge it fired originally. (It came with a .40-70 barrel on it, of all things.) Your project gave me an idea - barrel it with a .357 dimensioned unit and chamber it with a .38 Special reamer, but stopped well short of full depth so no dim bulbs would ever shoot .38Spl +P rounds in it. Call it a catchy name and stamp that on the barrel. (.38 Weeny comes to mind, haha!) Use standard .38 dies and molds to build low pressure fodder for it with shortened .38 brass.

I didn't realize CF-only #2's were rare. Thanks for the tutorial.

Since the original #2 in .38 Long can almost always accept .38 Special cartridges I wouldn't worry about what some dimwit might do. They could do so with any #2 in .38 long. But with the much larger bores these old .38 Longs have a good deal of the chamber pressure will escape past the small .357" bullets anyway, so they might survive their stupidity.

[marlinman93]

"The only place people can buy these heeled bullets today is Bear Creek Supply, and they offer just one bullet type in a 140 gr."

Quote from above.

Have you had good luck with these? So far I haven't, but would like to know others' experiences because I have a lot of them.
And yes, Old West is a very good resource for sure.

I've never bought .38 heeled bullets from anyone since I have molds for the heeled .38 already, and cast my own.

[marlinman93]

I ran around to a couple hardware stores yesterday to find an 8" long 5/16" bolt to make my through bolt from. Found them at store #2 and bought a few so I'll have spares. I turned the hex heads round, and then beveled the backside of the head to fit the stock bushing's shape. Cut 1/4" off the length, and using my Fordam and a cutoff wheel I made the large screw slot in the head.
Turned out a couple firing pins from drill rod; one for this block, and a spare for future. I mark the cut for the firing pin screw and just hand file that with a rat tail file as it's as quick and easy as any other method.
So it's 100% done now, and if this cold-windy weather lets up I'll give it a try at the range. In the meantime I'll cast up some more heeled bullets, and slug the bore to see if I need to size them down for this barrel.

[Green Frog]

I’m sitting on the lily pad holding my frog breath in anticipation! I love it when any Franken-Gun comes back to life, especially if the stitches aren’t too visible and the bolt I the neck is inconspicuous.

As for the CF-only #2 actions, please refresh my memory… weren’t Ballard rifles made in 32-20, 38-40, and 44-40 on the #2 action, or were they more often on the #4 (or other) action? There should actually be a fair number of those out there, IMHO.

Froggie

[P Flados]

Your project gave me an idea - barrel it with a .357 dimensioned unit and chamber it with a .38 Special reamer, but stopped well short of full depth so no dim bulbs would ever shoot .38Spl +P rounds in it.

FYI, Out of curiosity, I ran some quick numbers.

The breech thrust on a 44-40 at the rated 16,000 psi is going to be around 2,300 lbs.

The breech thrust on a 38 Sp +P at the rated 18,500 psi is going to be around 1,860 lbs.

It would take a chamber pressure of 23,000 psi for a 38 Sp reloaded round to approach the breech thrust of a 44-40.

If a breech face is too soft, a very high pressure round can eventually peen over some material at the firing pin hole. However even mild steels have a yield strength way more than the 18,500 psi of a 38 Sp +P.

If you are using a modern 0.357" blank, it should be made of a good heat treated steel. The actual barrel should handle 357 magnum type pressures as far as hoop stress.

[dtknowles]

I'm green with envy, Vall. (Maybe not as green as our Phibian Phriend, but green nonetheless!)

I too have a spare #2 CF action, firing pin same as yours, with no clue as to what cartridge it fired originally. (It came with a .40-70 barrel on it, of all things.) Your project gave me an idea - barrel it with a .357 dimensioned unit and chamber it with a .38 Special reamer, but stopped well short of full depth so no dim bulbs would ever shoot .38Spl +P rounds in it. Call it a catchy name and stamp that on the barrel. (.38 Weeny comes to mind, haha!) Use standard .38 dies and molds to build low pressure fodder for it with shortened .38 brass.

I didn't realize CF-only #2's were rare. Thanks for the tutorial.

Why not chamber to 38 S&W?

[gnoahhh]

Thanks, fellas. Talked a buddy into selling me a .357 barrel blank this evening. We'll see how this ends up.

[marlinman93]

I’m sitting on the lily pad holding my frog breath in anticipation! I love it when any Franken-Gun comes back to life, especially if the stitches aren’t too visible and the bolt I the neck is inconspicuous.

As for the CF-only #2 actions, please refresh my memory… weren’t Ballard rifles made in 32-20, 38-40, and 44-40 on the #2 action, or were they more often on the #4 (or other) action? There should actually be a fair number of those out there, IMHO.

Froggie

Charlie, I've never seen or heard of a Ballard #2 in.38-40, and always wondered why not? I have owned them in .44-40, .44 Long, and .32-20 with CF only firing pins. And of course almost every set trigger #2 I've owned was CF only firing pin, but I did see one DST block on a .32 Long that was CF/RF firing pin system.

[marlinman93]

FYI, Out of curiosity, I ran some quick numbers.

The breech thrust on a 44-40 at the rated 16,000 psi is going to be around 2,300 lbs.

The breech thrust on a 38 Sp +P at the rated 18,500 psi is going to be around 1,860 lbs.

It would take a chamber pressure of 23,000 psi for a 38 Sp reloaded round to approach the breech thrust of a 44-40.

If a breech face is too soft, a very high pressure round can eventually peen over some material at the firing pin hole. However even mild steels have a yield strength way more than the 18,500 psi of a 38 Sp +P.

If you are using a modern 0.357" blank, it should be made of a good heat treated steel. The actual barrel should handle 357 magnum type pressures as far as hoop stress.

Ballard breech blocks are the same for a cast #2 action, or any of their forged actions, except for the reversible firing pin setup. So a cast action Ballard has the same strength breech block regardless of which model Ballard action it's on. And all Ballard breech blocks are extremely hard! A file will skate right off the breech face and barely leave a tiny scratch, so it takes a stone, or polisher to remove any metal from the breech face of a Ballard block.

[GARD72977]

You have excellent taste in rifles. I'm always envious.

[pull the trigger]

Great writeup as usual. You always describe all your work as tho it is as easy as eating pie. Beautiful rifle

[marlinman93]

Great writeup as usual. You always describe all your work as tho it is as easy as eating pie. Beautiful rifle

In this rifle's case it truly was that easy!! Anyone with a barrel vise, and an action wrench could easily have put this one together. It just wanted to all be together, which is a rare circumstance for Ballard rifles.
I'm fighting my Darr Rolling Block currently, and thought since it's an existing barreled rifle things would be easy! But seems some "gunsmith" didn't properly chamber it, which is giving me fits currently.