Military bolt action rifles w/reputation for accuracy

[Bigslug]

Really interesting thread, being a Milsurp enthusiast myself. Interesting that no one has said anything about the US M-1917 or P-14 Enfields, or for that matter Lee Enfields. Many No.4s shoot quite well. Some of the Turk M-38s shoot cast bullets very well.

Count me in as a 1914/17 fan - to the point if I win the Powerball, I'll try to start up a factory for them. I just wish there was a better way to fairly compare all of them. As a whole, it's going to be hard to beat the Swedes, the Swiss, and maybe to a lesser degree, the Finns, because all three of those nations took their shooting very seriously and (aside from the Finns) didn't have the press of invading or invasion affecting their production speed or quality. Never mind the fact that most of their rifles weren't blown up by artillery, submerged in Belgian mud, or dragged across half a dozen Pacific islands. I was working in gun sales in the early 1990's after the Soviet Union fell apart and they unloaded all their milsurps out of storage. You could visibly tell from the receiver dates, build quality, and condition of the Mosin Nagants and Mausers which way the tide was flowing. A fun history lesson, but not one you can properly judge a design by - - unless you're gauging it just by the fact it still works after all that.

Conversely, the few "mothballed survivor" export Mausers I've run across (most memorably, a Persian one) are absolutely stunning, and my guess would be that they probably shoot as well as they look.

The question that is practically impossible to answer. . . .that we'd all like the answer to is: "Which was the best rifle when it was both built right and new?". The best 5-shot cast group I ever fired was from a friend's Finn M39 with either the 311299 or 314299 and (as I recall) 2400. Having pulled apart one owned by another friend, I can see why - amazing attention to detail on the inside of that stock. Considering that they chose to use the clunky Mosin Nagant action as the heart of those rifles, and Frankensteined them together out of captured parts around it, one tends to conclude that if a milsurp got built true to the blueprints, any of them can be made to deliver.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There's a lot of truth to that, Mr. Bigslug. As to quality of manufacture, all of the early Mausers were masterpieces of craftsmanship. For example, the 1893/95 7x57mm Mausers used by the Boers. But, the same basic rifle as produced in Spain doesn't have the same reputation. Good, yes, but not quite as good as the ones made in Germany. There always has been, and likely always will be, rifles identical in appearance to thousands of others that shoot a bit better than the rest; but the odds of finding that particular one is more likely among certain models. I totally agree with your assessment of Mosin-Nagants, clunky, never my favorites, but the Finns made them shoot. I guess that if I could select just one, brand new, built right military rifle it would be a Springfield M1903. Maybe an 03-A3...... But that would be because of the aperture sights and maybe better barrel. I like the looks of the '03 better, and the original sights are great for the range given time to tinker with them. Toss up.

DG

[HWooldridge]

I once owned a 6.5x55 M96 Mauser and still have a K31. Might be the individual rifles but my Swiss gun is more accurate than the Mauser was. Better stock trigger, too. It’s a fine shooter with the GP11 issue ammo.

[Alex_4x4]

[Conversation between a European and a Korean:]

European: "I don't like dogs."

Korean: "Yes? Or maybe you just don't know how to cook them?"

Mosin rifle for war, not for hunting or sport.

[john.k]

Ive had lots of milsurps from the days they were cheap .......anyhoo,without a doubt the most accurate Ive had is the P14/ M17 ,free floated and glass bedded ,will shoot under MOA all day.....of the makes ,Winchester is better than the other two by a small margin.

[beemer]

I have Enfields, Mosin Nagants, and Mausers. My favorite is the #4 Enfield, I have a couple that do shoot very well. A good deal of time has been spent tinkering with the bedding and I have found they shoot well with a floated barrel.

I don't think the #4 is as inherently accurate as a Swede or a K31. I had two K31's, one was very accurate and the other was jaw dropping accurate. I really didn't like them so down the road.

One of the biggest surprises I ever had was an old beat up WW1 98 with a pitted bore. It wasn't unusual to shoot groups at 100 yds you could cover with a quarter using WW2 ammo.

[Rapier]

A real surprise is an accurate M-99, ugly as a mud fence. Amazing just how accurate they can be. Of the ones I have owned, the only one I kept is a true story of the beauty and the beast. The Japanese were very particular in their rifle building prior to the war and during the early years of the war.

[richhodg66]

The days of widely available bolt action military rifles are long gone but the rifles are still out there and available.... though not ~cheap~ like they were in the 60s or even the 80s and 90s.

I haven't owned every kind of bolt action rifle there is but I've owned more than a few and some are better shooters than others. Some rifles are singular in their capability and some are collectively superior. This is my short list of upper end rifles that deliver superior accuracy with cast bullets. All these rifles below deliver exceptional accuracy with cast bullets. Feel free to share your military bolt rifles that deliver exceptional accuracy with cast bullets. I have many more rifles than just these below but none of them will out shoot these rifles.

Swedish m/1896 Mauser. Not all Swedes will deliver superior accuracy. Generally the better condition barrels will provide the best accuracy. I shoot .266" and .268" diameter from 140 gr to 150 gr. Five shots into one hole is a very good day. But you must learn to inspect the bore with due diligence. With j-type projectiles don't waste your time with anything other than IMR4831 and Reloder22. The Swede loves slow powders with j-type bullets. With cast bullets Unique & 2400 are my favorites.



Swiss Schmidt-Rubin 1896/11 & 1911 and Swiss K31. These rifles have excellent quality barrels but IMO they fall second to the Swedes in accuracy potential and delivered. But they are beautifully made rifles and wonderful shooters but if you're going to shoot a match pick the Swede m/96.



Argentine m/1891 Mauser rifles 7.65x53. The 1891 can have barrels with SJG stamped on the side of the barrel shank which is actually SIG for Swiss Industrial Company. Yep, some of these have Swiss barrels and those Swiss barrels deliver superior accuracy to include even bettering the m/1909 Argentine rifles made by DWM in Germany.



Finland m/1891 & m/39 with "B" barrels. Stamped on the barrel shank these barrels are said to be Belgian-made. All are dated 1942 but it is said they were rebuilds from post-WW2 and put into storage. These B-barrels are superior in every way to a standard Russian-made or Finn barrel. These are five shots into one hole shooters.

I have one of these, looks identical, but instead of the "B" it has what appears to be a small circle with a triangle in it (?) Also a 1942 dated rifle with a similar serial number range. It has that same very long barrel with that same front sight and as you say, is a very good shooter.

I have never researched into Mosins (I know I should) but what might the slightly different marking mean? Thanks for posting this information.

[Dutchman]

I have one of these, looks identical, but instead of the "B" it has what appears to be a small circle with a triangle in it (?) Also a 1942 dated rifle with a similar serial number range. It has that same very long barrel with that same front sight and as you say, is a very good shooter.

I have never researched into Mosins (I know I should) but what might the slightly different marking mean? Thanks for posting this information.

Start here and keep reading. http://7.62x54r.net/

Dutch

[FullTang]

My K31 is probably the most inherently accurate gun I own, but I think I can shoot my Turkish Mauser better, if only because it's about 8 feet long and that crazy sight radius just allows for the greatest precision.

[Texas by God]

The most accurate military bolt rifles that I’ve fired have been two Swiss K31s, a 98 Springfield (Krag), an 03A3 2 groove Sporter, a 99 Arisaka Sporter with Remington 700 sights, a couple of 96 Swedish Mausers, a Sako barreled Mosin Nagant, and a Mitchell’s Yugo Mauser. With younger eyes, all of the above grouped less than 2”@100yards with hand loaded ammo. The K31s were using surplus ammo.
I’m not a competition shooter, just an old deer Hunter. All would do better with a better shot behind the buttplate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mark Daiute]

1898 Krag

[6string]

You guys have some very nice rifles.
When I was a kid, my family lived in Canada. This was before the 1980s change in US law that relaxed mil-surp imports. There was a ton of stuff in Canada that was very hard to find in the US at the time. $100 would give you a choice of a nice Swedish Mauser infantry rifle or carbine, or various pre1898 model Mausers. Of course, there were tons of Lee-Enfields.
My first one was a gift from my Dad when I was 11. My uncle bought it for $3.00 from an Army-Navy surplus store in Halifax. He was going to toss it in the trash, but my Dad was there to intervene. He brought it home in a box as his carry-on luggage! (That'll tell you how long ago that was!)
Anyhow, I used to shoot it in the basement with very light loads using .30 cal buckshot roundballs. Eventually got a Lee Loader for it. 50 yds with boolits cast from an Ideal Loverin mold were good into an inch or so for five shots.

[steveu]

Finn 28/30.

[LAGS]

I agree.
I have two MN 28/30's
I did sporterize one of them 30 years ago.
It is one of my finest shooting rifles.

[dogmower]

Swedish mauser, 1903a3, 1903, 1917 enfield, swiss k31, enfield no.4 mkI, argentine mauser in 7.65 mauser, jap 99, k98k, steyr m95 in that order (most to least accurate)

[schutzen-jager]

1/2 inch off rest at 50yds. with cheap bulk ammo - Remington 513 trainer -

[303Guy]

This past weekend I took my never before fired two-groof Longbranch #4 to the range. This rifle is mint. Well, I was aware of being unsteady on the first shot but confident I squeezed of the second two on target. One of the holes has two shots through it. Bear in mind that the first shot was also out of a clean bore. That was only 25m so not benchrest accuracy and besides, accuracy is determined by how a rifle shoots ten shots, allowing the barrel to cool between shots. The rifle also shot hand loads into a tight group so I would say this rifle will be a MOA shooter.



But Lee Enfields do not have a reputation for accuracy.

Maybe this is why.


Oops!

But in fairness, it did shoot Greek surplus reasonably and I did get it to shoot hand loads reasonably too. Not stelar, but serviceable.

[Eddie1971]

I think Swiss IG1911 is more accurate than a K31. That being said I just got an unfired M91 B Barrel I need to load for.

[nicholst55]

This past weekend I took my never before fired two-groof Longbranch #4 to the range. This rifle is mint. Well, I was aware of being unsteady on the first shot but confident I squeezed of the second two on target. One of the holes has two shots through it. Bear in mind that the first shot was also out of a clean bore. That was only 25m so not benchrest accuracy and besides, accuracy is determined by how a rifle shoots ten shots, allowing the barrel to cool between shots. The rifle also shot hand loads into a tight group so I would say this rifle will be a MOA shooter.



But Lee Enfields do not have a reputation for accuracy.

Maybe this is why.


Oops!

But in fairness, it did shoot Greek surplus reasonably and I did get it to shoot hand loads reasonably too. Not stelar, but serviceable.

I briefly owned a No.4 MK 1 Lee Enfield that printed groups like your second target. It went away pretty quickly.