Lapping out H & H sizing die - how to measure when done?

[murf205]

Paul, just a reminder; you can buy individual pins without buying a whole set. There's no need to buy dies that you will probably never use.

[huntinlever]

Paul, just a reminder; you can buy individual pins without buying a whole set. There's no need to buy dies that you will probably never use.

Thanks - I ended up with just the one at 0.461 (-) 0.0000/0.0002. Appreciate it.

[Larry Gibson]

I'm intrigued Larry - but not sure, how would I do the process without a lathe?

Hi Larry - I found a pin gage at 0.461 (-) 0.000-0.0002. Are you just saying go ahead and hand lap, but use the pin gage in place of slugging the die, then replace the gage for the "I"? If so, awesome. How do you actually cup the end of the pin, without machining tools?

This is what I said; "I would then measure the diameter of the "I" die (the push rod) after removal and order a pin gauge .002 over that diameter."

Did you measure the "I" die diameter? If so I doubt it was .459 [.461 minus .002]. It should have been .457 or maybe .458 at the largest as it must slip fit through a .459 sizer. That means if you hone out the "H" die to take a .461 pin gauge then the bllet sizing will be .462 - .463.

The "I" die of my .459 sizer measures .457. Thus, pin gauge of .459 would be appropriate for my current .459 "H" die were I to hone it out to .461. Suggest you actually measure the "I" die and order a pin gauge .002 over that diameter.

The "I" die top can be dished out slightly easily enough by chucking the "I" die in a 1/2" drill held in a vise. A Dremel tool with a small grinding stone can do the dishing while the drill turns the "I" die. A hack saw can then cut the new "I" die to the same OAL as the original. Then chuck it into the drill again and use a file to smooth and square the base and put a small bevel as on the original.

[huntinlever]

Oh, thanks, yes, I did miss that. The "I" is .458 at its widest. I'll re-order the right size. Not familiar at all with machining - this one has a tolerance of up to (-) 0.0002. Should I just order the .460, allowing it might be as low as .4598?

-and given a lack of expertise or equipment, given I have to cup the one side slightly and cut it down to the length of the "I," any suggestions? Is this a shop job?

[Dutchman]

For the lapping, is a standard gun oil OK to use, or should it be something lighter?

For 400 grit emery cloth I might use WD40. Motor oil would be too viscus, too thick. Don't forget to finish off with crocus cloth, also with WD40.

When in doubt: experiment!

Dutch

So what if you never use most of the pin gauges? You can tell which ones I've used. These came from one of the big sellers on fleabay with free shipping. I've never found one out of spec measured with a Mitutoyo 1/10,000th micrometer.

[gwpercle]

The best way is to size a couple boolits and measure them .
Measuring inside diameters is rather a pain ... like your rifle's bore ...
Drive a slug through it and measure the slug .

In Baton Rouge , Louisiana ... H & H is a very popular Lure making company ... my first bass baits were H & H Spinner Baits ... back in the day you had your choice of a double or single spinner blade ... everyone had H & H Spinner baits in their tackle box .
They now sell both Freshwater and Saltwater lures ... H & H Lure Company
Gary

[Larry Gibson]

A .0002 difference on the "I" die will be, essentially, meaningless.

If you don't feel confident in the minimal amount of alteration needed for the "I" die, then any machinist should be able to handle it with aplomb. Just give him the orignal "I" die and have him make both ends and the length the same.

I have done this alteration to several H&I dies over the years including opening my own .459 up to size bullets at .452 [that one sizes 16-1 alloyed bullets at .4515 because there is little spring back]. I used a .460 pin gauge for the "I" die. I'm getting ready to do another; a .257 H&I die I will hone out to size at .259. The "I" die measures .255. I've ordered a .257 pin gauge to use for the new "I" die. I'll hone the "H" die out until the .257 pin gauge is a smooth slip fit. I've no doubt the bullet will then be sized .259+/_ given variances in alloys.

[huntinlever]

A .0002 difference on the "I" die will be, essentially, meaningless.

If you don't feel confident in the minimal amount of alteration needed for the "I" die, then any machinist should be able to handle it with aplomb. Just give him the orignal "I" die and have him make both ends and the length the same.

I have done this alteration to several H&I dies over the years including opening my own .459 up to size bullets at .452 [that one sizes 16-1 alloyed bullets at .4515 because there is little spring back]. I used a .460 pin gauge for the "I" die. I'm getting ready to do another; a .257 H&I die I will hone out to size at .259. The "I" die measures .255. I've ordered a .257 pin gauge to use for the new "I" die. I'll hone the "H" die out until the .257 pin gauge is a smooth slip fit. I've no doubt the bullet will then be sized .259+/_ given variances in alloys.

Thanks Larry, lapped out very nicely. I was able to smoothly but snugly push the 0.460 pin gauge through, then finished with a polish.

I'd give it a try on fashioning the I die from the pin gauge, but I don't have the tools. (Former chef, and his tools, minor odds and ends otherwise). I'll drop it off, easy job as you say.

Been interesting, learned. Thanks again.

[huntinlever]

Well, interestingly, I contacted a few local shops and all of them said they can't do it as the gauge is hardened steel and they're not set up for that. They can chop it, but the heat from the chop saw, etc., would screw up the metal. If they can't do it, I know I can't. Thoughts?

I'm wondering if I might have to put up with the OEM I Die at .468 and like the previous time (old Lyman), deal with the lube coming up the sides, and wiping the boolits down. This is what they used to look like more or less:

[slughammer]

....They can chop it, but the heat from the chop saw, etc., would screw up the metal. If they can't do it, I know I can't. Thoughts?

Don't worry about loosing the hardness of the cut pin. Annealed steel is plenty hard compared to the lead that is pushing it down. It will still last forever.

Do you own a dremel? How about a 1/2" drill?
The 1/2" drill is a bonus, but not necessary; if you have one, use it to spin the pin as you cut it. If not, just cut the pin with a cut-off wheel in the dremel. Use the cut end as the bottom, the ejector mechanism of the press doesn't care if the pin bottom is pretty.

Cupping the top helps seal the pin to the gas check. This helps keep lube off the bullet base. Cupping the top is a "nice" feature, but not 100% necessary.

I find that keeping consistent pressure on the nose of the bullet keeps the bullet from lifting and that keeps lube off the bases.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

[huntinlever]

Don't worry about loosing the hardness of the cut pin. Annealed steel is plenty hard compared to the lead that is pushing it down. It will still last forever.

Do you own a dremel? How about a 1/2" drill?
The 1/2" drill is a bonus, but not necessary; if you have one, use it to spin the pin as you cut it. If not, just cut the pin with a cut-off wheel in the dremel. Use the cut end as the bottom, the ejector mechanism of the press doesn't care if the pin bottom is pretty.

Cupping the top helps seal the pin to the gas check. This helps keep lube off the bullet base. Cupping the top is a "nice" feature, but not 100% necessary.

I find that keeping consistent pressure of the nose of the bullet keeps the bullet from lifting and that keeps lube off the bases.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Wow, fantastic, thanks. I'll give it a shot. I do have a 1/2" drill, but not a Dremel. I'm sure I can bum one from a friend. Lol, the "I" dropped from the "H" and I wasn't sure which end faces the boolit bottom - thought it was the flat end, not the concave end. Great to know, many thanks. Any suggestion on cupping the top? Is there something like a "core box" router bit for steel, something to shape the one end into a concave?

[slughammer]

..
.Any suggestion on cupping the top? Is there something like a "core box" router bit for steel, something to shape the one end into a concave?

Spin it with the drill and grind it freehand with the dremel while it's spinning.

Just black the end up with a sharpie. Start grinding near the center and work your way toward the edge. Leave a thin black band. (I've seen extreme and minimal, I'd suggest the minimal version.) Cup both sides before you cut it off, pick the best one and cut off the other.

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[huntinlever]

OK great, thanks.