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Thread: "Brush Gun" loads for .45-70 cast HP

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    "Brush Gun" loads for .45-70 cast HP

    Picking up one of the new Ruger Made Marlin 1895 Trapper's tomorrow and I just ordered a
    MP 462-420 HP mold to go with it.

    I'd like to develop some close range "Brush Gun" loads that will be easy on the shoulder and ears out of a 16" barrel.

    My thoughts are running straight soft lead and some type of pistol powder to get me around 1,000 to 1,100fps. Or trailboss maybe? I have most common pistol powders on hand as well as a keg of trailboss.

    MP says the mold will drop 405gr solid and 382gr with the hollow point. If I run straight lead with the hollow point I assume I'll be +400gr.

    Anyone have any experience or reccomendations with HP cast cast loads like this??

    I will of course post pictures once I pick the rifle up as well

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    Last edited by alping45; 12-15-2022 at 10:55 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master mehavey's Avatar
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    For a 405gr classic load: ~12.0gr UNIQUE
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...l=1#post930495

  3. #3
    Boolit Master hc18flyer's Avatar
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    There are several recent threads on .45-70 Unique and Alliant 2400 loads. May be in the Single Shot folder. I also remember Folks suggesting a 20 to 1 alloy over pure lead. I am using similar loads in a Browning Hi Wall rifle, 300 to 405 grains, plain based bullets. Best of luck with your new rifle.
    hc18flyer

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
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    I wouldn't go straight pure lead ... too soft , 1 part tin / 20 parts lead (1/20) will work better for 1000 - 1100 fps velocity . Fit is most important especialy with Micro-groove rifling in Marlins ... will your rifle have standard cut or the Micro-groove .
    Gary
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I use a Lee 515 gr bullet .561, in pure lead, with 27 grs of 5744 under it, in my guide gun, for my bear load, carried this for fishing.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Don't size the bullet too small.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Castaway's Avatar
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    A little tin goes a long way on getting mould fill-out. Classical advice is pure lead for muzzleloaders, but missing from that is that round balls are what they’re talking about. Round balls will fill out with pure lead where a conical will give you problems. At slower velocities, I would tend to make the bullets a little harder so I wouldn’t be pushing a parachute through a critter. A harder bullet will make a good wound channel with a better chance for an exit wound

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Pistol powders can be problematic. It’s a big case and you can have erratic ignition/groups with some of them if the powder is not sitting on the primer end when fired. That opens up a different can of worms regarding fillers, etc. Try using a powder that fills more of the case and is known to NOT be position sensitive. Your goal of 1,000-1,100 fps is really on the light side. I shoot “light” loads but they’re still around 1,300-1,400 fps and they aren’t at all abusive with 400g bullets. Using lighter bullets will soften them up quite a bit more. Don’t use pure lead for reasons listed above and make sure you slug your barrel and go .0015”-.002” larger.

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    I wouldn't go straight pure lead ... too soft , 1 part tin / 20 parts lead (1/20) will work better for 1000 - 1100 fps velocity . Fit is most important especialy with Micro-groove rifling in Marlins ... will your rifle have standard cut or the Micro-groove .
    Gary
    No more micro groove. Cold forged 6 groove 1:20 twist on the new Ruger made guns.

    Still sounds like a 20 to 1 alloy is the way to go based on recommendations.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master mehavey's Avatar
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    If standard Ballard rifling/PP, suggest 1-30 or even pure lead (which the Sharps definitely liked)
    (1,385 fps average using setup in Post#2)

    Test will be how easily it feeds/hitting ramp being soft

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Go to the Lyman manual & look at starting loads for the Trapdoor. I would up the vel to about 1200fps. Still very easy shooting & will work well on any deer or hog.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
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  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master


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    22.0 2400 is what I use, easy shooting and thumps hogs.
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

    Men who don't understand women fall into two categories: bachelors and husbands!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master mehavey's Avatar
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    Pistol powders can be problematic. It’s a big case and you can have erratic ignition/groups
    with some of them if the powder is not sitting on the primer end when fired.
    OK --- I/m going cast/powdercoat some 30-1 405s, run 12gr Unique out of a Marlin GBL and fire a 50yd (brush gun) test over a LABRADAR. No particular attention paid to positioning.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    20-1 lead/tin gives good accuracy at velocities in the 1200-ish FPS range, and it holds together nicely - through water at least. Top photo is a .32 130 grain WFN, bottom is a 180 grain WFN .40 S&W bullet pressed into service for testing a 38-40 rifle.

    Your mileage may vary, but I find about 1600 fps / 400 grains to be about the point where an 1895 Marlin quits being fun and starts being painful. 1000 fps nears .22LR comfort. I would recommend figuring out what your threshold is and adjust from there. The trajectory is going to be HORRIBLE regardless - no sense making it worse than necessary.
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy

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    Could never get my 1895 Marlin (336)( pre-lawyer no cross bolt safety) with micro groove rifling to shoot well unless I shot boolits sized to .460. Size your bullets to at least .458 or larger if they will load and chamber. Use 4759, 4198, 5477, or my favorite Reloader No 7 1-20 tin and lots of good lube with beeswax. Reloader No 7 will get you great velocity and the lowest pressure. Should be able to drive em to 1600fps without a gas check! My old fire sale Marlin has put alot of Bambi fur on the ground.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Great bullet choice. Stay in the trap door load level. The beauty of the .45-70 is that you don't have to goose it to make it go.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy SoonerEd's Avatar
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    I use that bullet without a HP cast of range lead at ~ 8 BHN with Trailboss at 1,100-1,200 fps out of a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun for hunting pigs in the swamp. At 50 yards it works fine and just rolls pigs. Most of my shots are 20-40 yards. This load is mild and works great at this limited range and velocity. If I were shooting at 100 I would want a different load with more velocity and better accuracy. Which would likely require increasing the hardness some to match the velocity.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    You should be able to use any of the Trapdoor level loads to meet your needs.
    NRA Benefactor Member NRA Golden Eagle

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mehavey View Post
    OK --- I/m going cast/powdercoat some 30-1 405s, run 12gr Unique out of a Marlin GBL and fire a 50yd (brush gun) test over a LABRADAR. No particular attention paid to positioning.
    You’ll learn nothing that way. If you do the same loading technique each time without trying different variables you’ll either get it all right or all wrong. Turn some up and turn some down and compare the two methods. Do it with each powder tried. Shoot five of each and measure the groups. If you have a chronograph measure velocity also. Doing things randomly doesn’t teach you anything. (I made a career out of doing designed experiments….with great success).

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    I shoot whatever alloy happens to be in the pot with trail boss and have got great groups at 50 yards with 405gr, 360gr NOE, and 300 grain of unknown alloy I got in trade. It seems that 14 grains of trail boss with any of them works great.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check