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Thread: Famous 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards Savage MKII is on my bench!

  1. #61
    Boolit Master

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    Soooo. . .now that you have it zeroed, when are you going jogging through the woods with it, looking for squirrel meat?
    WWJMBD?

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  2. #62
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    All this experimentation, demonstrates just how much details matter in precision shooting. Both in equipment and technique.
    Also, just how much different conditions matter in day to day shooting.
    I noticed that temperature changes during the shooting session seemed to have a larger effect on my group size than I would have believed. It is hard to say just how much expansion and contraction changed things. Then you also have the added heat from the round count(barrel warming) to consider.

    Your results are very encouraging. Particularly, since I purchased a fairly large quantity of the Eley Club ammo a little while ago.
    For me, finding a day with little wind and minimal temperature change over a shooting session is hard to do. Where I live, we have 20-30 degree temperature swings from morning to afternoon.
    Wind is always a factor. I just can't seem to get my head wrapped around the changes yet. Still working on it.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    Soooo. . .now that you have it zeroed, when are you going jogging through the woods with it, looking for squirrel meat?
    Oh Lord No with all the add-ons this pulls in at 12lbs, now did have a squirrel that was staying in front of the back stop 1 day. 1 shot to the head at the 50
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    All this experimentation, demonstrates just how much details matter in precision shooting. Both in equipment and technique.
    Also, just how much different conditions matter in day to day shooting.
    I noticed that temperature changes during the shooting session seemed to have a larger effect on my group size than I would have believed. It is hard to say just how much expansion and contraction changed things. Then you also have the added heat from the round count(barrel warming) to consider.

    Your results are very encouraging. Particularly, since I purchased a fairly large quantity of the Eley Club ammo a little while ago.
    For me, finding a day with little wind and minimal temperature change over a shooting session is hard to do. Where I live, we have 20-30 degree temperature swings from morning to afternoon.
    Wind is always a factor. I just can't seem to get my head wrapped around the changes yet. Still working on it.
    Long time taz, I did see major changes in velocity with colder temps. I have been seeing good results with this semi-auto benchrest. The last target I showed the groups were not good with that and it was because of the velocity change with the cold, and I should have re-tuned. One cold day out with this same ammo I had an average of 1056 SD 8 and on a warm day I was getting an
    average of 1084 SD 10. That’s 28fps difference, THAT’S A LOT! Anyway good to hear from you taz.
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  5. #65
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    A couple things occur to me. . .

    Eley's Match and Team rounds are nothing more than rounds that for obscure reasons, didn't make all the inspection cuts to be labeled Tenex. . .probably because the factory seismometer registered a mouse farting in a wall a block away at the instant the bullet was seated or something similar. At any rate, they're a lower cost version of the flat point EPS round that would let you see if those dynamics are worth advancing your project.

    They also have a biathlon round touting a "cold weather lube". Now, what else they did to the round to optimize it for cold, I can't say, but given that Hodgdon's temperature insensitive powders have been around at least a couple decades now, it would seem a no-brainer for one of the match ammo companies to be looking into that chemistry. If their factory literature doesn't tell you, your chronograph will. Only downside is you have to plan it out over months.
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  6. #66
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    All this experimentation, demonstrates just how much details matter in precision shooting. Both in equipment and technique.
    Also, just how much different conditions matter in day to day shooting.
    I noticed that temperature changes during the shooting session seemed to have a larger effect on my group size than I would have believed. It is hard to say just how much expansion and contraction changed things. Then you also have the added heat from the round count(barrel warming) to consider.

    Your results are very encouraging. Particularly, since I purchased a fairly large quantity of the Eley Club ammo a little while ago.
    For me, finding a day with little wind and minimal temperature change over a shooting session is hard to do. Where I live, we have 20-30 degree temperature swings from morning to afternoon.
    Wind is always a factor. I just can't seem to get my head wrapped around the changes yet. Still working on it.
    This is a subject that has had me mulling on it for several years now...
    'Temperature changes, expansion, velocity change, barrel temperature, projectile lubriction & on and on...I tell you boys, this is a 'Side Tunnel in a deep Rabbit Hole'.

    Using this same rifle, back in February of 2021, I set up an experiment to try to document what the heck is really going on regarding this 'barrel temperature phenomena'...
    Why would I do this? ... Because I noticed a very short window in shooting for groups where the groups would behave...If I did anything that delayed my shooting by around 10 minutes, I would see the barrel start to act like it was needing to warm up & season again.
    I didn't understand this and think now that I still don't, so...I'll give you the facts I have...

    It was a cool day in February around 10:00, plus or minus a few minutes. I try to shoot early when the wind turns around allowing me milder wind...



    I set up my multi-meter with a temperature probe and taped the thermocouple directly over the chamber to monitor the barrel temperature from before the time I started to the time I ended up after shooting a 6 target card. The ambient temperature in the shop where I kept the rifle was 68ºƒ, for the short time the rifle was in the sunlight, this is the temperature of the barrel before I started...



    After completion of the card, this is the temperature of the barrel, 21 minutes later...



    The total time I shot to complete the card is typical of my pace, at this pace I see the barrel as consistent, I don't get that pattern I see when the barrel is warming & seasoning on the first target top left where the 'warmers' are...you can see the very first shot off at 0300, then they work-in to the group somewhere around the 3'rd or 4'th shot.



    Time and temperature of the barrel is noted at each spot when the spot was completed...all the empirical data is here.

    This leaves me questioning whether it is the temperature of the barrel or the 'freshness of the lubrication'?
    "Let me explain..."
    I suspect but cannot prove it...but I suspect that since there is little temperature increase in the barrel, the big influence on lubrication is the 'freshness' of it's condition between successive shots.
    I suspect that at the micro surface level, the surface of the lube changes character with time...that it becomes liken to a scab that has formed on a cut or scrape. I suspect that it looses significant lubricity, thereby... changing the internal ballistics of the round fired and depending on the time lapse between successive shots, it's affect becomes significant.
    I can't prove this suspicion scientifically, I just don't have the means or knowledge to attempt the documentation.

    In the .22lr cartridge, I don't think there is enough heat generated to significantly affect the temperature of the barrel (especially so with the mass of the bull barrel pulling that heat that is generated away from the chamber & leade and bleeding it off to the adjoining parts of the mass of the barrel and receiver) & especially so in the rate we shoot the .22lr during bench rest type shooting. It's not like we are doing mag dumps with a center-fire where the barrel actually can heat to an extent where it will even glow & smoke to the point it self destructs.

    As a side note...here's a couple pictures showing the heat increase in the barrel after the card was finished. I took my gear back to the shop, placed the rifle on the table saw in the sunlit shop as I went and collected the card. Maybe 10 or 15 minutes elapsed while I was measuring groups and marking the card.
    This first picture is when I noticed the increase...(keep in mind that the ambient air temperature is around 58ºƒ)



    This caught my eye so I continued to watch this.
    By the time I had the card all marked up and ready for a picture...perhaps 45 minutes after leaving the bench, this is the heat in the barrel...



    My suspicion is that direct sunlight & ambient air temperature affect the temperature of the .22lr BR barrel more than does the firing of the rounds themselves.
    This is why, after several years now that I suspect what I do regarding the 'freshness' of the lubrication.

    My thoughts and conclusions are always & eternally open to what others think, to what others have collected as empirical data. I would be a fool to use my data alone to come up with a conclusion about any subject and this is one of those subjects that have had me 'forever confused'.
    What is you guy's opinions?
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  7. #67
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    Speaking of lube, a small bore competitor and gunsmith once advised my brother and myself of it's importance and the difference it can make between brands or labels of the same brand. This gunsmith, Gary Gault of Marysville, PA (Gary made some fine 1,000yd rifles for compitition at the Williamsport range) told us he would find what shot best and buy it by the case, however FINDING what shot could be a chore in itself, a long process and he didn't clean his bore after each type of ammo he tested, BUT he did fire at least ten-twenty shots expecting less than great results to clean any lube from the previous ammo from the bore and start new with what he was shooting for score. He believed the lube could have an effect on accuracy and to get a true group of a new type, the old lube in the barrel had to be shot out first.

    I've never gotten to that point myself with .22lr accuracy, but it might be something to consider.
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  8. #68
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    Thing that’s got my wondering is the day I got that low velocity at 43̊ I had the ammo on the bench the whole time. Next day it was 46̊ but kept ammo in my shirt pocket and pulled five at a time to shoot, then my velocity was normal. The other thing about this Semi-Auto benchrest ammo is it’s listed with paraffin as a lube but like a liquid film on it and it gets on your fingers when handling them. It’s not like the hard paraffin like I see on the Club or Contact. Or is it more about the primer and powder and not so much the barrel? Or the lube?
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithaca Gunner View Post
    Speaking of lube, a small bore competitor and gunsmith once advised my brother and myself of it's importance and the difference it can make between brands or labels of the same brand. This gunsmith, Gary Gault of Marysville, PA (Gary made some fine 1,000yd rifles for compitition at the Williamsport range) told us he would find what shot best and buy it by the case, however FINDING what shot could be a chore in itself, a long process and he didn't clean his bore after each type of ammo he tested, BUT he did fire at least ten-twenty shots expecting less than great results to clean any lube from the previous ammo from the bore and start new with what he was shooting for score. He believed the lube could have an effect on accuracy and to get a true group of a new type, the old lube in the barrel had to be shot out first.

    I've never gotten to that point myself with .22lr accuracy, but it might be something to consider.
    Off subject: funny you brought up Williamsport PA, that’s my wonderful wife was born 70 years ago. It’s a small world
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  10. #70
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Ithaca Gunner---Several times, I have taken my cleaning equipment with me and cleaned the barrel between ammo tests to see if it makes any difference. My answer was, it does make a difference but not always the way you might think. Usually, you still need to shoot 10-20 rounds to "season" the barrel before you get consistent results. I have tried the method of just shooting 20 rounds without cleaning and it seems to work about the same as cleaning the barrel. I just like to work from a known quantity(a clean barrel) to start with, to eliminate possible unknown variables.

    OS OK---- The shooting area I use is shaded with a good roof over the benches. Walls on three sides. The wind doesn't hit the shooter but since the shooting lane is a 200 yard slot between tall trees, the wind comes in over the trees and from either end of the lane and swirls around. The direction appears to change suddenly and without any real notice as you shoot. What the wind is doing now may well be different in 30 seconds. It may even change while you are squeezing off your shot. Absolute calm days are rare. his spring I managed to find two of them and shot the only perfect scores I have managed to this point.
    Usually the temps run from around 70F to 90F with the temp increasing during the morning hours until mid afternoon. If I start in the afternoon, the temp shift is decreased. I only have to deal with about a 5-10 degree change.
    My rifle is stored in a safe in my basement. It goes into a case there and travels to the range. When I take it out, it is still cold enough to form condensation on the barrel and scope lenses until it warms up. I have to stand them in a corner with the bolts out until the moisture clears up. I am not certain they are ever at ambient temps when I am shooting and have no means of testing that anyway.
    In any case, I have noticed that I need about 15 shots for the rifle and ammo to stabilize before I can trust the groups to be consistent. I still get wandering groups over the course of a long string of shots. I believe it is due to interior temp and/or lube changes while the barrel is heating up. I hate to think the relatively small changes in temp are causing this but that is what I believe. In any case, there is little or nothing I can do about that in any case.

    Harry Tobin--- A year or two ago, in another thread, I tested my ammo in several different rifles over my chronograph and posted the results. I remember very inconsistent results as far as velocity, rifle to rifle. Usually the ammo was consistent in the same rifle but would be quite different in another rifle. Usually, the better(more expensive) the ammo, the better the numbers were. There were a few cases where Eley match would outshoot Eley Tenex or any of the other high end brands. Apparently, just something about that particular lot of ammo.
    Unfortunately, the best ballistic numbers didn't always translate into the best groups.
    Oddly, the lube that was used on the different brands of ammo didn't seem the make any of the different lots particularly more accurate. The bullet shape and speed seemed to make a greater difference than the lube. As you might expect, different rifles preferred different brands and lots of ammo. This caused me to reconsider the concept of having too many rifles to customized ammo supply for.
    I haven't done any testing in colder weather with my chronograph. I have found that one of my rifles shot better in cooler temps than it did in warm weather. No idea why.

    My biggest help in consistency has been to check the action screw torque settings. The temp change from going inside to outside and back again loosens the screws a bit. Now, when I finish shooting for the day, I loosen the screws slightly before I store it and re-torque them at the range before each session. My rifle has aluminum pillars for the screws to seat against.
    Proper torque settings, a clean barrel, and good ammunition have been the best habits that work for me.
    The wind conditions and temperature are just luck of the draw.

  11. #71
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Twists and turns...twists and turns...

    It is a circuitous path.

    Charlie, the "freshness of lube" might be an interesting theory. I wonder if it could be investigated by shooting each shot in successive groups within a time limit. PM coming.

    The first test with 5 groups shot with 30 seconds between shots. (25 rds)
    A second series of 5 groups shot with 2 minutes between shoots. (25 rds)
    A third series of 5 groups with 5 minutes between shots. (25 rds)
    Lastly, a series of 5 groups with each shot at a different interval. Say, 30 seconds between shot 1 and 2, one minute between shots 2 and 3, two minutes between shots 3 and 4, and five minutes between shots 4 and 5. (25 rds)

    It would be a long and laborious process. Ideally done on a calm day so wind effects are not muddying things up.

    It would be interesting to track group size and also POI.

    The challenge is finding small differences requires a lot of groups. That is not only boring but gets expensive. The test above would require 20 five shot groups and it should be repeated at least once...so 200 rounds.
    Don Verna


  12. #72
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Twists and turns...twists and turns...

    It is a circuitous path.

    Charlie, the "freshness of lube" might be an interesting theory. I wonder if it could be investigated by shooting each shot in successive groups within a time limit. PM coming.

    The first test with 5 groups shot with 30 seconds between shots. (25 rds)
    A second series of 5 groups shot with 2 minutes between shoots. (25 rds)
    A third series of 5 groups with 5 minutes between shots. (25 rds)
    Lastly, a series of 5 groups with each shot at a different interval. Say, 30 seconds between shot 1 and 2, one minute between shots 2 and 3, two minutes between shots 3 and 4, and five minutes between shots 4 and 5. (25 rds)

    It would be a long and laborious process. Ideally done on a calm day so wind effects are not muddying things up.

    It would be interesting to track group size and also POI.

    The challenge is finding small differences requires a lot of groups. That is not only boring but gets expensive. The test above would require 20 five shot groups and it should be repeated at least once...so 200 rounds.
    Don I think that is an excellent experiment and would be very happy to do it with ONE CAVEAT...
    "We will have to wait until about March 2023 because that time of year begins about a 3 or 4 month period where I have an early morning calm for about 1 to 2 hours where the cold night 'air/wind' stops coming 'down' (actually it is sinking air) from the Sierras above me flowing into the Sacramento Valley 40 miles below me. I am at 2,250'ASL so I'm right about in the lower middle of that flow. It is usually coming from the NNE and flowing to the SSW following the ridge lines of the Sierra Mountains...I live on a ridge.
    When the wind turns around, it's usually around 10:00am (morning sun warming the Valley up) and that air is the warm/hot air that heats up in the valley and rises to the Sierras behind me, that stops just after sundown and reverses again overnight and starts the cycle all over again in the morning."



    [[[tazman When the wind blows you can see all the trees and the house where the wind gets COMPLICATED! I consider myself a 'Lucky Duck' getting 1/2 & 3/4 MOA 100 yard groups this time of year. Getting a reliable zero or a good tune is near impossible.]]]

    That 'usual flow' is most often a full value but can switch to 1/4 value if there's another moving weather system over in Nevada on my east or out in the Pacific to my west. This is the only time of year I can get reliable zeros and tuner tunes.
    I have 4 bricks of Eley Match that I just got in and is ready to tune, in fact it is waiting either for a miracle or next March...prolly March!

    So yes...I would be happy to do that experiment. I got your PM and thank you for your gracious offer but it is not necessary. The empiricle data we get from this may be pretty significant.
    You know I love gathering data, I can't think of a better way to practice. I recon you could call it 'Multi Purpose Practice'.

    So Don...we can fine tune the testing criteria in the months to come and generate a new thread to post it in, however it may take several days to complete each test but time is one thing we have ...charlie
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  13. #73
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    I used to think the same way, Tazman. Gary reminded me of the trouble of cleaning lube, (wax) out of a bore and convinced me the risk of bore wear with a cleaning rod wasn't worth it.

    Now I just thought of Paco Kelly and his accurizer tool for .22lr ammunition. I never tried one, but heard good things about them. Just a thought.
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  14. #74
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote---The challenge is finding small differences requires a lot of groups. That is not only boring but gets expensive. The test above would require 20 five shot groups and it should be repeated at least once...so 200 rounds.

    That would take nearly eight hours total. I added up the times. 4 hours for each test set of 100 rounds. $60-100 in ammo cost, depending on which ammo, and a lot of time.
    The results would be interesting for sure.

    One of the contests that I have participated in requires that all targets(25 rounds for score and however many sighters you wish) be shot in 20 minutes.
    I am not certain there is a practical application for this test for my use other than the knowledge itself.

  15. #75
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    Guys, I almost did not post the proposed test. I think it may be valuable but I hate people suggesting things and are too lazy to do the work. I do not want to be in that crowd.

    But I do not have a good enough .22 LR to do a meaningful test. I shared this with Charlie plus offered to pay part of the cost. And I am not sure I can shoot as well as either Charlie or Harry have shown us. Plus Charlie has a good baseline of loads and tuner settings that perform.

    Charlie’s theory may be a rabbit hole but the only way to know is to test it. What if there is a big fat cottontail down there? LOL

    Both Charlie and Harry have the right mind set to do this kind of investigation. I will let them wrestle with who should try it, if it seems worth doing.
    Don Verna


  16. #76
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    TAZMAN...I think(?) that Don has derived this test to find out whether or not my suspicion about the lube has any merit.

    I suspect but cannot prove it...but I suspect that since there is little temperature increase in the barrel, the big influence on lubrication is the 'freshness' of it's condition between successive shots.
    I suspect that at the micro surface level, the surface of the lube changes character with time...that it becomes liken to a scab that has formed on a cut or scrape. I suspect that it looses significant lubricity in a short amount of time lapsed, thereby... changing the internal ballistics of the round fired and depending on the time lapse between successive shots, it's affect becomes more & more significant.


    What you said just now...[One of the contests that I have participated in requires that all targets (25 rounds for score and however many sighters you wish) be shot in 20 minutes.] ...leads me to believe that just maybe the Pros know something about the lube that they do not share. That may be the fact that for the best accuracy they need to keep that lube 'fresh' in regards to time that it sits there in the bore between successive shots.

    That lube is subjected to 2.5 ~ 3Kºƒ from the flame chasing the projectile. In my thinking...that high temperature may have a huge influence on the physical characteristics of the lube once the projectile clears the bore and fresh air/oxygen is able to flood the barrel and starts to form that 'scab effect' I mentioned earlier. That alone may put a 'life span' on the time that lube stays in there with a high lubricity factor.
    If my suspicions are somewhere in the ballpark that could be one of the reasons for having unlimited sighters during the shooting for tight groups.

    Those Boys have a sea of wind-indicators in front of them and I think those indicators are a primary factor in how fast they are able shoot their groups. These guys have amazing patience and timing in waiting on a specific wind condition to repeat, all depending on the contest day and overall conditions during the tournament. Quite often conditions at the range are so variable you have to try to 'pick & shoot' the same condition for the optimum groups.
    Should it take longer between shots for them to wait & shoot the same condition as the shot before...'they just might light off a 'sighter' to refresh the lube'.
    These things I don't know for certain as I do not compete.

    Like I said earlier, I've mulled on this for a long time now and my thinking & reasoning keeps driving me to suspect the 'freshness' & 'life-span' of the lube may be a big factor if they expect to get maximum performance & consistency from that lube.

    Sometimes I think that I may have been in this .22lr BR Rabbit Hole too long now? ......I might be having brain'farts in my Golden Years?

    Does that make any sense to you?

    PS DON...heheee, you posted when I was writing mine. Please don't let it worry you about the cost or who does the testing. This is where we collectively learn something and that to me is profitable for all, we learn what does and what don't.
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Guys, I almost did not post the proposed test. I think it may be valuable but I hate people suggesting things and are too lazy to do the work. I do not want to be in that crowd.

    But I do not have a good enough .22 LR to do a meaningful test. I shared this with Charlie plus offered to pay part of the cost. And I am not sure I can shoot as well as either Charlie or Harry have shown us. Plus Charlie has a good baseline of loads and tuner settings that perform.

    Charlie’s theory may be a rabbit hole but the only way to know is to test it. What if there is a big fat cottontail down there? LOL

    Both Charlie and Harry have the right mind set to do this kind of investigation. I will let them wrestle with who should try it, if it seems worth doing.
    Don I am honored you mentioned my name for this, I do have the mind set but I am still at the beginning of mastering the skill. Charlie is a machine and can repeatedly do the same thing every time. I have taken my bench down for the winter, just getting to hard with arthritis in hands with the cold here now. I’ll continue in the springtime.
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  18. #78
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    All this talk of the possible lube variables, what about dipping a batch in some thinned Alox?

  19. #79
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    OS OK---- The competition is timed because they want to shoot several passes in a single day. Some of those bench rest shooters are so patient that they would wait as long as needed for conditions to match, including barrel temps and wind. They would only finish maybe one pass during a day.
    They shoot three passes that are registered for each equipment category. Each category shoots together so the conditions are the same for everyone in that category. Someone can't complain that the wind suddenly came up during their run when it was calm for everyone else.

    Some of those rigs are worth thousands of dollars. That is why I stick to the limited factory class. Not as much money involved.

    GTEK== Interesting idea. I wonder how much testing the ammo companies do making sure their lubes work well. I know they spend lots of time working with bullet shapes and sizes. I never heard any reports on whether a particular lube is inherently more accurate than another except on this site. 22rimfire ammunition is made with cast boolits after all.
    I do know some of the manufacturers us a mixture of beeswax and something else. Alox has a similar formula.
    Last edited by tazman; 12-10-2022 at 11:41 AM.

  20. #80
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    OS OK---- The competition is timed because they want to shoot several passes in a single day. Some of those bench rest shooters are so patient that they would wait as long as needed for conditions to match, including barrel temps and wind. They would only finish maybe one pass during a day.
    They shoot three passes that are registered for each equipment category. Each category shoots together so the conditions are the same for everyone in that category. Someone can't complain that the wind suddenly came up during their run when it was calm for everyone else.

    Some of those rigs are worth thousands of dollars. That is why I stick to the limited factory class. Not as much money involved.

    GTEK== Interesting idea. I wonder how much testing the ammo companies do making sure their lubes work well. I know they spend lots of time working with bullet shapes and sizes. I never heard any reports on whether a particular lube is inherently more accurate than another except on this site. 22rimfire ammunition is made with cast boolits after all.
    I do know some of the manufacturers us a mixture of beeswax and something else. Alox has a similar formula.
    I guess that everyone loves a calm day for shooting and it's absolutely needed for getting a Zero or Tuning a new lot of ammo but I get the most pleasure shooting in variable wind up to about 4mph....no, actually 3 mph, 4 I haven't been able to cope with yet.
    I like reading my flags & my one windicator vane, making my call based on where I think it would be deflected to and then making an aim-point out on an outer ring somewhere and actually getting some decent groups.
    All I shoot now is the 100 yard bench, it's a real test of ability and rifle.
    Over on 22Rimfire (?) I think is the name, one of the fellas there claim that when you go from 50 to 100 yards you can realistically expect your groups to open up by a factor of 3X.
    Of course, I didn't believe that but after building my 100 yd. bench I can honestly say it's about 90% true.
    Give that wind an extra 50 yards to mess with your trajectory and it is mind numbing at times, especially with a complicated range with trees and such causing back currents and wind eddys.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check