opinions on aperture sights

[racepres]

Some 30 yrs ago I learned the value of an ivory front bead from a late friend that was 15 yrs older. Quite visible, but none of that bright, shiny reflective "bloom" of a brass bead. Not having the $$$ to spend on ivory bead inserts or the time to find them, for years I've degreased brass beads with acetone and applied a dab of almond-colored appliance touch up paint made by Rust-Oleum. Those off-white poor man's painted "ivory" beads really stand out with buckhorn, receiver, or tang sights, to my halfway to 138 yr old eyes. That tiny bottle of paint has lasted 13-15 yrs. When the paint flakes or chips off, wipe with acetone and reapply.

Noah

I steal some of the bitter half's hot pink nail polish... I do Not believe that the color is discernible thru a peep... It does "draw" the eye...and that is all that matters. For me Anyway

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Probably would not happen on a 357, but there is at least one case of the tang sight damaging an eye, a Savage 99 .300 Savage if I remember correctly. I have tried the 'glow' or Fire Sights but did find them to coarse for fine shooting beyond 50 yards. I went to Track of the Wolf, a muzzle loading site and found a selection of their brass and silver sights, I am using a brass blade .062 (1/16) thick that I am happy with. I like the old Redfield Sourdough front sights but they are gone. It had a post/blade with a a brass insert at 45 degrees to pickup the light. I have shaped the brass blades on my rifles to slant so that they also pick up the light. A bead should have a flat face or side light can affect where you shoot. The optical rods can do this also, depending on face shape of the light rod. For hardcore load development, an aperture FRONT sight can also be used. such a target sight setup allows under MOA grouping on the right rifles.

[beemer]

I put a Marbles tang sight on one of my lever guns, I was never comfortable with it. Very accurate but in my opinion too fragile for a hunting sight where I hunt, short range and thick cover. Never found a proper place to put my thumb. I mostly use Williams FP sights, not the quality of the old Lymans or Redfields but not as expensive. I don't have but have shot the Skinner sights. I think it would be a great hunting sight, simple, rugged and well made.

One thing I really like is the Merit adjustable aperture. Merit is back in business and I ordered two as soon as I found out.

[GregLaROCHE]

I am a fan of peep sights, especially the diopter type. I went to a peep site on my 45/70 Marlin after the second time the buckhorn type sight got torn off in heavy brush. The Lyman peep sight served me well for years, but windage threads have gotten a little loose from a lot of hard use.

[Castaway]

For what it’s worth, the use of ivory or a dogs tooth on front sights was because of a slight glow that helped in seeing the sight in low light. Ivory colored paint just isn’t the same

[HWooldridge]

I put a Marbles tang sight on one of my lever guns, I was never comfortable with it. Very accurate but in my opinion too fragile for a hunting sight where I hunt, short range and thick cover. Never found a proper place to put my thumb. I mostly use Williams FP sights, not the quality of the old Lymans or Redfields but not as expensive. I don't have but have shot the Skinner sights. I think it would be a great hunting sight, simple, rugged and well made.

One thing I really like is the Merit adjustable aperture. Merit is back in business and I ordered two as soon as I found out.

Some of that discomfort on the hand placement around a tang mount is the particular rifle and caliber. A ‘92 or ‘73 Winchester in one of the pistol calibers is pretty easy to shoot without hurting you or the gun. That same setup on a ‘95 in 30-06 might dislocate your thumb.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I got here a little late but I have to insert my .02 just because I have talked about this very subject many times and one more time won't hurt.

Shooting Iron Sights is NOT a function of Young Eyes! It is a function of learning how to do it. I am 73 and wear progressive glasses full time. If I can do it so can you!

Most of us grew up shooting open sights on our BB guns and .22's. When we were young we could shift focus between the target front sight and rear sight instantly. And that was the way we shot.

Unfortunately it was also a bad technique to use because all that really mattered was/is the Front Sight.

With Open Sights you need to establish "Sight Alignment" between the front and rear sights. At that point you need to hold that alignment in place using your cheek weld on the stock. Then you simply put the Front Sight on the target and let fly.

With Aperture Sights the Front Sight Automatically aligns itself in the aperture, so that removes one thing to think about. Then you put the Front Sight on the target and let fly.

The target in both cases will be fuzzy because your focus is on the Front Sight.

If you are using an Optical Sight like a Red Dot or Scope you put the dot or cross hair on the target and let fly. You can't do this fast enough! Red Dots are not made for Precision Shooting, they are made for Rapid Target Acquisition. And since there is only one thing to put your attention on it is by far the fastest.

I am sorry to tell you that the only way you will ever be proficient with any sighting system is to practice. Obviously Iron Sights will take more practice.

One way to get lots of practice is to have a pellet gun you can shoot in your garage or back yard. That way you don't have to go somewhere to practice you just step out the back door. I have 2 nice pellet guns, one has Open Sights, the other has an Aperture Rear Sight. Both have the same Front Sight. I use these guns to practice my Iron Sight shooting with. Anyone can do this. Before I was married I had a Range setup down the hall at my Condo. I shot 10-20 rounds everyday after work and on weekends. I was pretty good but that was also 40+ years ago. Now I shoot in my Shop and not nearly as often however I can go right back to being good in a few days because I understand what I am supposed to be doing and all I have to work on is my Muscle Tone.

In fact I need to go work on that tone right now cuz after my Physical last week I found that 15 lbs. had miraculously been added to my gut in the last 3 months!

All that said,,, if I was you I'd look at putting a Skinner Rear Sight on that gun. Then I'd go out and shoot it a bunch so you can get the hang of what I wrote about above. It will take a lot of practice so I hope you reload cuz you're gonna need a lot of ammo! If you make it fun, you will do it more often. If you have a BB gun at home you can get started with that. You will be surprised just how accurate BB guns are.

Hope this helps. And you are not shooting groups here. You are shooting to hit a target offhand.

Feel free to ask questions.

Randy

[huntinlever]

W.R., I'd never thought of practicing with an airgun. This is going to sound crazy but I'm looking at my son's old Daisy bb gun right now, with Buckthorn sights. One of the reasons I went through the Skinner was because I just couldn't justify shooting the tons of rounds I thought it would take to become proficient, with the 45-70. That and, well, I couldn't get used to blur, both the aperture and the target itself. I used to see like a hawk (would trip friends and family out by calling street signs before they even saw the signs) but that's long gone. But reading what you're saying, perhaps at least for the range one more go with the aperture would be possible. I'd love to be able to carry a peep into the bush, so long as I could count on shooting humanely and well.

Now - any ideas for a cheap aperture to mount on this old Red Ryder?

Edit: Looks like the Daisy 5899 rear aperture works, but then I'd need a higher front blade on the 880. Just found the Tech-Sight rear aperture and front pin sights we had on a couple of Marlin 795's we once had. Any suggestions?

[indian joe]

I got here a little late but I have to insert my .02 just because I have talked about this very subject many times and one more time won't hurt.

Shooting Iron Sights is NOT a function of Young Eyes! It is a function of learning how to do it. I am 73 and wear progressive glasses full time. If I can do it so can you!

Most of us grew up shooting open sights on our BB guns and .22's. When we were young we could shift focus between the target front sight and rear sight instantly. And that was the way we shot.

Unfortunately it was also a bad technique to use because all that really mattered was/is the Front Sight.

With Open Sights you need to establish "Sight Alignment" between the front and rear sights. At that point you need to hold that alignment in place using your cheek weld on the stock. Then you simply put the Front Sight on the target and let fly.

With Aperture Sights the Front Sight Automatically aligns itself in the aperture, so that removes one thing to think about. Then you put the Front Sight on the target and let fly.

The target in both cases will be fuzzy because your focus is on the Front Sight.

If you are using an Optical Sight like a Red Dot or Scope you put the dot or cross hair on the target and let fly. You can't do this fast enough! Red Dots are not made for Precision Shooting, they are made for Rapid Target Acquisition. And since there is only one thing to put your attention on it is by far the fastest.

I am sorry to tell you that the only way you will ever be proficient with any sighting system is to practice. Obviously Iron Sights will take more practice.

One way to get lots of practice is to have a pellet gun you can shoot in your garage or back yard. That way you don't have to go somewhere to practice you just step out the back door. I have 2 nice pellet guns, one has Open Sights, the other has an Aperture Rear Sight. Both have the same Front Sight. I use these guns to practice my Iron Sight shooting with. Anyone can do this. Before I was married I had a Range setup down the hall at my Condo. I shot 10-20 rounds everyday after work and on weekends. I was pretty good but that was also 40+ years ago. Now I shoot in my Shop and not nearly as often however I can go right back to being good in a few days because I understand what I am supposed to be doing and all I have to work on is my Muscle Tone.

In fact I need to go work on that tone right now cuz after my Physical last week I found that 15 lbs. had miraculously been added to my gut in the last 3 months!

All that said,,, if I was you I'd look at putting a Skinner Rear Sight on that gun. Then I'd go out and shoot it a bunch so you can get the hang of what I wrote about above. It will take a lot of practice so I hope you reload cuz you're gonna need a lot of ammo! If you make it fun, you will do it more often. If you have a BB gun at home you can get started with that. You will be surprised just how accurate BB guns are.

Hope this helps. And you are not shooting groups here. You are shooting to hit a target offhand.

Feel free to ask questions.

Randy

I will agree with W R
I am a 48 vintage -- sight was ok as a youngster but never hawkeye - couldnt do iron sights those days because nobody taught me - I learned to do it properly in my mid '40's when I took to muzzleloading - despite reading glasses and now half strength ones for outside I can shoot a better iron sight target now than I could at age 20. I make my own sights for competition work - on a long flinter the front is about 3/16 wide with a corresponding big rear notch - still shooting good enough to get peoples attention any time I get serious about it. I live on a farm so I will practice with a single shot 22 -- dont have an air rifle - that would be an even better idea. Have a mate lives in town, one of the best riflemen out there - he practices in his bedroom - little black mark on the wall and his ML set up for dry firing

[HWooldridge]

I was introduced to rifle shooting by my grandfather when I was about 6 years old. He traded his deer rifle for a Marlin model 39 and taught me to shoot with the barrel sights. I was supervised on every session until I was around 9 or 10, then I was allowed to go on short solo excursions until I was in my teens. The exercise was all about gradually increasing personal responsibility.

I was born with extreme myopia but the optometrist was always able to get my vision to 20/20 or a bit better with glasses. After looking at my retinas, the eye doctors would say I should be blind, but my brain was able to adjust around the voids and holes; I would twist my head or blink if the floaters were really bad. That said, I practiced a lot and got to be a pretty decent shot.

My great-uncle was an exceptional marksman and he mentored me on breathing and trigger control. Once I started hunting on my own, he would hand me 15 cartridges then ask about the details of any shot I took. I could shoot birds or varmints or small game for the pot, but he wanted me to bring everything home so he could see where I hit each one - and I got lectured if it wasn’t a head shot, or if I missed and the shell count was off. Subsequently, most of the rifles I owned into my 30’s were iron sights - either barrel or peep.

I had cataract surgery at 42 and the surgeon fixed the myopia but my vision isn’t crisp anymore, and at 64 it’s a real chore to see barrel sights, so it’s either a scope now or some type of aperture. I still have the model 39 but it wears a 4x post reticle now. Such is life.

[W.R.Buchanan]

You guys need to understand that crisp focus on the target is not necessary. The only thing you need to focus on is the Front Sight. Somebody mentioned "Diopter Sights" these are peep sights with calibrated openings or small lenses to match the prescription of your glasses. They are designed to insure a clear focus on whatever Front Sight you are using.

If you do a little Research into optics, you will find that the light path that goes thru a lens can be duplicated by using a aperture. If you have heard of the "Merit Adjustable Aperture" it was designed so that you could vary the size of the hole you are looking thru until your Front Sight is in focus. I have several of them and on my Enfield #4 Mk1 / L39 replica I have mounted a Redfield "Olympic" Target Sight with one of my Merit Discs. I have shot my best Short Range (50-200 M) Silhouette score of 32/40 with that gun and cast boolits.

I have a Mauser ES340B single shot .22 rifle that I have had since 1968. It is a full sized mans rifle that was made in 1929. It came with extremely good open sights. The rear sight is calibrated from 30M to 200 M using Standard Velocity .22 LR ammo. I shot my best "Rimfire Silhouette" Score (40,50,75,100M) of 31/40 with that gun using the open sights. I also have a Weaver K4 on an Anschutz mount that was sighted in in 1978 and has been off and on the gun literally hundreds of times yet remains dead on. I like shooting the gun with the Iron Sights better so I always take the scope off when shooting the Silhouette game. I used the same technique of capturing the Sight Alignment with my cheek weld as I described above. Then you put the front sight on the target and let fly.. Since the rear sight has hash marks for different ranges I am always looking for the same "Sight Picture" when shooting that game.

The last picture is on my Springfield M2 .22. It has a Lyman #48 rear sight and is also a good Silhouette Shooter. I am currently building a Replica NRA Sporter which is essentially the .30 cal. version of the M2.22. It also has a Lyman #48 and a Lyman 17A Front Sight with interchangeable inserts.

In case you haven't figured it out by now, I really like shooting Iron Sights. For the things I do I find them more challenging and thus more rewarding. I mean would you rather tell someone you just shot a Bull Elk with Your Scope Sighted .300 WM Sniper Rifle off a rest,,, or your .45-70 Marlin 1895 CB with a Peep Sight shooting Off Hand at 75 yards? You know my answer.

Randy

[beemer]

Randy, I bought a box of junk at an estate sale, the guy had been sort of a gunsmith. Among other goodies I found a three Redfield target sights, one being an Olympic. It had a base that had been hacked on, the sight was used but seemed serviceable. I have been eyeing several rifles, a #4 MK2 is one of them. Was a base made for the Enfield or do you have to modify one. What type of front sight does your rifle have. I am very interested in this. My rifle was an unissued Faz and is very accurate.

Dave

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Daisy does make a 'target' BB gun with an aperture sight. It is the Daisy Champion, $178 on Amazon, might seem expensive for a 'BB Gun' but you can shoot it anywhere and BB's are cheap. I have a Red Ryder and other pellet rifles, but this discussion may lead to another BB Gun under the tree. Don't shoot your eye out.

[quilbilly]

I have Skinner sights on my 336. It comes with two apertures with the spare mounted on the front of the sight base. This allows you to change them out in less than a minutes from a tight target style aperture to something that allows more light in low light hunting situations. I'm a fan.

Me, too! Skinner sight is good for my 72 year old eyes.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Dave: I made the base and it adapts to the gun by using the Ejector Screw and a screw from the inside thru the left rear sight mounting tab. You must make a new Ejector Screw that is about .060 longer, but other wise it is a no mod adapter that can be reversed at any time. I have sold several of these to some AUS guys about 10 years ago. Don't have time to produce any more.

I got the idea from a picture of a Lyman/Redfield Rear Sight Adapter Plate I saw somewhere. I am a toolmaker by trade so this was not a big stretch for me. I took the idea of the adapter plate and lengthened it and added the rail that fits the female slot in the sight base. The biggest problem I had was finding 8-36 screws to make the longer ejector screw. 8-36 is now a Bastard size and almost unobtainable.

I also make adn sell a Front Sight Windage adjustment tool. They are in stock, see my website.

Randy

[beemer]

Randy, thanks for the response. I am sure that rifle is fun to shoot. Nice work as well.

Dave

[hornetguy]

Well, as a follow up.... I put a Skinner on the Henry 357, and finally got around to putting the Steve'sGunz safety replacement aperture on my Rossi 45 Colt.
Makes all the difference in the world.... I intended to accomplish three things at the range... test some loads, chronograph them, and test the apertures for accuracy. Since I ran off and left my chrono at home, I just tested the loads and the sights.
These loads in the 357 Henry were the same loads I shot in it last time, getting about 3" groups at 25 yards, off a less than stable bench setup. Two different loads... this is the better of the two loads, off the same less than stable bench... The other was a larger group, but still better than last week...

and this is a pic of three different loads from the Rossi 45 Colt at 25 yds.

and then a pic of each rifle wearing their new "aps".... I'll need a taller front sight for the Henry, but that's easily done.

[Ramjet-SS]

65 eyes declining for sure. Big fan of aperture sites. I love 6:00 o close hold with a front post and ghost ring. My favorites include
Skinner with fiber optic from
A.O. Sight Systems ghosts ring with white highlight front

Good peep and front goes for as ,inch as what I used buy decent scopes for.

[Char-Gar]

I have been using aperture sights on my rifles since 1959. I can shooting groups with one the same size as i can with a scope. I much prefer the receiver mounted click adjustable for windage and elevation like the Lyman or Redfield.

[FergusonTO35]

Cheek weld and shoulder weld is the key for me, whether with a scope or sights.