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Thread: opinions on aperture sights

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    .......You guys need to understand that crisp focus on the target is not necessary. The only thing you need to focus on is the Front Sight.

    Randy
    Randy is absolutely correct. That is the essence of using aperture or open sights. Focus on the front sight.........it is the front sight that must be crystal clear in focus. The target may be slightly blurred or fuzzy and that's okay. When you focus on the target instead you lose sight alignment. Of course, younger eyes do this better than old eyes, but the principle is the same and must be adhered to for best accuracy.........focus on the front sight!!!!!
    Larry Gibson

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  2. #62
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Yes, 100%. My problem is that my eyes don't want to focus on one particular spot for very long.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  3. #63
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    Unless you competitively shoot one of the precision type shooting games that uses irons sight it hard to fully understand the level of concentration it takes to properly focus on the front sight. One trick we used with service rifles (once the post front sight was smoked with a carbide smoker) was to put a fine line on it with sharpened needle. If the shooter couldn't see the line they weren't focusing hard enough on the front sight.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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  4. #64
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    Target shooting I suppose a tiny hole aperture screwed in to a Lyman or Redfield peep is OK when shooting off a rest at a target having no movement. But for sporting purposes. {100 or 150 yards shooting distance.} Best to have the peeps aperture in your shirt pocket for safe keeping. No aperture benefits >see clearer at above distance. See longer depending how high you're off the ground. Open Barrel Sights will close down a hunters day near or at sundown. Peep with no-aperture-installed will allow its shooter a extra 5 minutes in the Stand or at the Bench (Gun Range.) Sometimes 5 minutes extra is most beneficial.

  5. #65
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    Peep and "aperture sights" are the same thing and they are simply a sight with a round hole that you sight thru. They can be on the rear and or the front. Ones with a large hole are commonly referred to as ghost rings. Some have screw in apertures so you can change sizes. Others have a variable sight like a camera lens iris. Regardless they are all aperture sights.

    https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/gho...s-take-a-peep/

    https://www.chuckhawks.com/aperture_sights.html

    http://www.skinnersights.com/apertures_8.html

    Iris style apertures

    http://www.champchoice.com/store/Mai...ions&item=9510

    http://www.champchoice.com/store/Mai...&c=OPAIAN&pg=0

    http://www.champchoice.com/store/Mai...&c=OPAIAN&pg=1
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 12-07-2022 at 12:57 AM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  6. #66
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    Unless you competitively shoot one of the precision type shooting games that uses irons sight it hard to fully understand the level of concentration it takes to properly focus on the front sight. One trick we used with service rifles (once the post front sight was smoked with a carbide smoker) was to put a fine line on it with sharpened needle. If the shooter couldn't see the line they weren't focusing hard enough on the front sight.
    Thanks so much, will try that!
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  7. #67
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    It isn't hard or rocket science to use an aperture rear sight. You look THROUGH the aperture and not AT the aperture. With any kind of metallic sight you look AT the front sight and the rear (aperture/notch/etc and the target are not in focus. This is true for rifles and handguns.

    You children have been spoiled by optical sights. Never, ever start a child shooting a rifle with a scope. They think everything must be on one plain the will not be able to wrap their heads around shooting real sights.

    When I was about five years old, a relative handed me a Marlin 22 rifle. He drew in the dirt the proper sight picture and told me to look at the front sight. That is all it took.

    I have had very few scopes on rifles in my lifetime. I consider them fragile, burdensome, limiting and slow. I have a good pair of Zeiss binocs for looking and a rifle for shooting. With a good rifle, load and sights I know inimitably, I am good for deer out of 300 yards.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 12-07-2022 at 02:19 PM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  8. #68
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Now this is a properly sighted rifle.
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    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    It isn't hard or rocket science to use an aperture rear sight. You look THROUGH the aperture and not AT the aperture. With any kind of metalic sight you look at the front sight and the rear (aperture/notch/etc and the target are not in focus. This is true for rifles and handguns. You children have been spoiled by optical sights.

    I just never understood that even a blurry front ramp was acceptable. With both a blurry ramp and target, I've thought there's no way I could ethically head into the field. But I hate the mounted scope on the lever, so I am again intrigued by maybe taking the year with a good developed load and practice, practice, practice.
    -Paul

  10. #70
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinlever View Post
    I just never understood that even a blurry front ramp was acceptable. With both a blurry ramp and target, I've thought there's no way I could ethically head into the field. But I hate the mounted scope on the lever, so I am again intrigued by maybe taking the year with a good developed load and practice, practice, practice.
    Why are you looking at the ramp? Look at the sight blade or bead. If you have older eyes, take your rifle with you to an eye exam and get a pair of glasses that will make the front sight sharp.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  11. #71
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    Sorry, I might be using the wrong term. I mean the front sight, a blade, which IIRC I needed to raise by some to accommodate the rear peep, but I can't quite recall.

    The problem I have is that (1) I hate wearing glasses in the thick North Midwestern woods - just another thing to lose in the middle of a close-quarters hunt. Secondly, if corrected for this vision, I can't see at all at distance, though I know bifocals are for that. Id thought if the front blade is a little blurry, same with the target, that's acceptable - just practice. No?
    -Paul

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinlever View Post
    Sorry, I might be using the wrong term. I mean the front sight, a blade, which IIRC I needed to raise by some to accommodate the rear peep, but I can't quite recall.

    The problem I have is that (1) I hate wearing glasses in the thick North Midwestern woods - just another thing to lose in the middle of a close-quarters hunt. Secondly, if corrected for this vision, I can't see at all at distance, though I know bifocals are for that. Id thought if the front blade is a little blurry, same with the target, that's acceptable - just practice. No?
    That is a question no one can answer except you. For maximum accuracy the front sight must be crystal clear. Anything less results in accuracy loss but depending on your vision you may be able to achieve acceptable accuracy. Only you can answer that.

    I have always worn glasses. I have needed two prescriptions for a long time. One for street wear and one for shooting. For about the last 10/12 years my street wear glass provided acceptable accuracy with my carry gun, however, about two years ago accuracy went south and was no longer acceptable for a carry gun so I made the switch to a Holosun Dot sight. Even with my street wear glasses accuracy is back to maximum under good light and way better under low light.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    That is a question no one can answer except you. For maximum accuracy the front sight must be crystal clear. Anything less results in accuracy loss but depending on your vision you may be able to achieve acceptable accuracy. Only you can answer that.

    I have always worn glasses. I have needed two prescriptions for a long time. One for street wear and one for shooting. For about the last 10/12 years my street wear glass provided acceptable accuracy with my carry gun, however, about two years ago accuracy went south and was no longer acceptable for a carry gun so I made the switch to a Holosun Dot sight. Even with my street wear glasses accuracy is back to maximum under good light and way better under low light.
    Thank you. That's a valuable insight.
    -Paul

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    It isn't hard or rocket science to use an aperture rear sight. You look THROUGH the aperture and not AT the aperture. With any kind of metallic sight you look AT the front sight and the rear (aperture/notch/etc and the target are not in focus. This is true for rifles and handguns.

    You children have been spoiled by optical sights. Never, ever start a child shooting a rifle with a scope. They think everything must be on one plain the will not be able to wrap their heads around shooting real sights.

    When I was about five years old, a relative handed me a Marlin 22 rifle. He drew in the dirt the proper sight picture and told me to look at the front sight. That is all it took.

    I have had very few scopes on rifles in my lifetime. I consider them fragile, burdensome, limiting and slow. I have a good pair of Zeiss binocs for looking and a rifle for shooting. With a good rifle, load and sights I know inimitably, I am good for deer out of 300 yards.
    I agree with your post however it might be appropriate to acknowledge - If you are "good for deer at 300 yards" with non magnifying sights you are well inside the top 1% of shooters anyplace

  15. #75
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    I think I'm going to work up a new load with the scope to see what the gun likes, then give a try to the Skinner, with the med. - X large apertures (and ghost ring).
    -Paul

  16. #76
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    I agree with your post however it might be appropriate to acknowledge - If you are "good for deer at 300 yards" with non magnifying sights you are well inside the top 1% of shooters anyplace
    Anyone who has spent time in four position military style shooting can do that. Spend time pulling targets at 600 yard pit and you will get to know just what folks can do with an iron sighted rifle. You must know how to read the light and dope the wind. It isn't that hard for someone who has spent time learning rifle craft. The problem is scope babies really don't understand rifle craft. Today shooting near and fast is the thing. In my salad days shooting far and slow was the thing.

    The same is true for handgun shooters. I have in the last few years shot with Border Patrol, Texas Highway Patrolmen and even a Texas Ranger or two. They are all trained for close and fast, but stretch the range out and most of them might as well be throwing rocks. Yes, I know they are trained for the shooting they most likely will need.

    Bottom line is we have almost lost the craft of precision shooting. We used to be known as a Nation of Rifleman, but now we are mostly spray and pray shooters. I know that all off you are exceptions and shoot the eye out of a gnat at 1,000 yards
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  17. #77
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinlever View Post
    I think I'm going to work up a new load with the scope to see what the gun likes, then give a try to the Skinner, with the med. - X large apertures (and ghost ring).
    Hint: The smaller the aperture the smaller the group. so called ghost rings are ok for close in hunting in poor light, but have their limitations. I don't hunt any more, but when I did I keep a Redfield Twilight in the sight and a target pin hole sight in my pocket and changed them as conditions changed. No, the POI does change when the aperture is changed.

    Before the war, the Lyman receiver sight were made with a fold down small aperture and a threaded portion for a screw in aperture.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  18. #78
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    Presbyopia is about the hardest kick in the yams that a shooter can experience. Apertures can be a big help - especially ones that allow you to adjust the size of the hole.

    I work with a lot of M4-style carbines at the office. The post on the standard fixed "triangle" front sight tower is closer than my eyes would like it to be, but with the small aperture deployed, I can focus on it well enough for tactical work. When I flip to the large / night aperture, however, the front post blurs to uselessness.

    Your answers are:

    1. Longer sight radius. . .which unfortunately kills the whole short, light, handy carbine theme. (I bought a CZ .22 with a 28" barrel just so I could shoot open sights and pretend I'm 10 years old again)

    2. Aperture sights to allow the pinhole effect to clarify your front sight, and also to get more sight radius than you'll have with a barrel-mounted rear.

    3. A red dot sight, which puts your aiming device in the same focal plane as your distance prescription, and eliminates the need to align the usual four points (eye, rear sight, front sight, target), as well as the need to establish correct eye relief as you do with a scope. It's about as fast on target as you can be.

    4. A scope is a pair of glasses for shooting, and you adjust the "prescription" by turning the ocular lens dial until crosshairs and target are in focus together. It's not without it's problems, but it's as clear as the world is going to get. There are a number of variables now that can dial down to a true 1x and usually go up to 6x or 8x. The 1x is at least as fast to get on as irons and probably faster.
    WWJMBD?

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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    Anyone who has spent time in four position military style shooting can do that. Spend time pulling targets at 600 yard pit and you will get to know just what folks can do with an iron sighted rifle. You must know how to read the light and dope the wind. It isn't that hard for someone who has spent time learning rifle craft. The problem is scope babies really don't understand rifle craft. Today shooting near and fast is the thing. In my salad days shooting far and slow was the thing.

    The same is true for handgun shooters. I have in the last few years shot with Border Patrol, Texas Highway Patrolmen and even a Texas Ranger or two. They are all trained for close and fast, but stretch the range out and most of them might as well be throwing rocks. Yes, I know they are trained for the shooting they most likely will need.

    Bottom line is we have almost lost the craft of precision shooting. We used to be known as a Nation of Rifleman, but now we are mostly spray and pray shooters. I know that all off you are exceptions and shoot the eye out of a gnat at 1,000 yards
    I agree with you (ya pretty much confirming what i said anyways)
    I was that scope baby you quote, from when I first started to shoot until age 40 when I took up shooting muzzleloaders - learnt properly about iron sights from a book ! yep ! got it out of a book ! - I spent my life to that point surrounded by spray and pray shotgunners - had wore glasses as a kid and that was easy to use as an excuse so a scope was my way out - I was pretty handy with a scope sighted rifle - a good deal better than average anyway - but I always admired those few old timers I saw that could stand up and shoot straight with iron sights - that was something!!! ........I used to say "any fool can do it off a rest with a scope gun" ---funny thing even that is not true - a lot of fellers cant do that (which puzzles me no end really)

    Have visited your country four times (8 weeks each time) hangin out with the locals was the major part of it and anytime anybody dragged a gun out and offered me a shot - you bet!
    Your spray and pray thing quickly became evident to me ----thinking "wish ammo was that cheap back home so I could waste it like these guys do"

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    Hint: The smaller the aperture the smaller the group. so called ghost rings are ok for close in hunting in poor light, but have their limitations. I don't hunt any more, but when I did I keep a Redfield Twilight in the sight and a target pin hole sight in my pocket and changed them as conditions changed. No, the POI does change when the aperture is changed.

    Before the war, the Lyman receiver sight were made with a fold down small aperture and a threaded portion for a screw in aperture.

    another hint
    for open iron sights (conventional barrel sights - not aperture) if you cant see that front one reasonable clear you will not do good - the front sight on my favourite flintlock is 3/16 wide blade with good airgap in the back notch - I can usually keep my offhand group inside the area that blade covers on the target at 100yards - that kinda dont make sense to a lot of people -- no matter how fine and precise your sights are if you cant see the front clear you cant get precise alignment - but can get precise alignment with a coarse sight that you can see well . also shoot a long enough barrel that you can move the backsight away from your eyes will help some too.

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