Dacron for low load 2400, etc. - Lyman CB manual?

[huntinlever]

Hello,

I've never had the issue come up with my 45-70 GG loads, because I've only used IMR 4198 at fairly stiff loads over my 425 WFNGC. Good advice has gotten me to rethink things and I will be pulling back for deer hunting, likely going with something like 2400 when I can find some (and possibly a non-GC'ed 46-405M mold from Tom at Accurate).

The Lyman's CB manual (I'm looking at the 3rd currently, though getting the 4th), calls for a 0.5 grain dacron wad for most of the powders it recommends, including at the high end of each's loads. Taking 2400 as an example, I thought it wasn't very position sensitive. Is this a safety measure to prevent double charges, or is it truly to ensure adequate powder-primer contact? Is wadding necessary on any of these listed powders (entire load range low to high on Unique, 630, 2400, SR-4759, IMR-4227; and low end for IMR-4198)?

[Larry Gibson]

Suggest you read the "Proper Use of Fillers" thread sticky on this sub-forum. A dacron filler would be fine to use but not as a wad. I use a filler with 2400 in my TD loads with 385 - 415 gr bullets.

However, with those weight of bullets using top end loads in a GG the use of a filler may not be necessary.

[huntinlever]

Thanks Larry, I didn't know of the fillers sub-forum and will check it out. The book calls for wad, but it sounds like might be a misnomer (or the 4th edition has corrected that, haven't read it yet). I just checked this thread out, and will keep poking around.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ht-loads/page2.

[black mamba]

I will say that if you can get your mitts on some SR-4759 you won't need the fillers. It's the bulkiest powder I've ever used, and was made for exactly your application, low velocity and low recoil rifle loads. It's very accurate, even at sub 50% fill levels.

[RickinTN]

I believe later issues retract the advice for the use of fillers, at least in most cases. If you notice they also advise sizing to bore size. We all know that to be bad information.
Good luck, and take care,
Rick

[NSB]

I’ve played around with fillers on a couple of different 45-70 rifles I own. In particular I’ve spent quite a bit of time with my Winchester High Wall. This gun is a true tack driver. I use 2400 for my primary hunting load and I’ve shot groups with and without fillers and haven’t found a significant difference in accuracy (follow Larry Gibson’s advice with fillers). You’ll note that Lyman removed the filler info on later editions of their loading manuals, probably due to improper used of them. In most cases they aren’t needed to begin with. With some powders they are beneficial. The only load I ever had that squibbed was in my High Wall and it was with a 405g bullet using 3031 powder. I believe the powder moved to the front/bullet end of the case before firing and the spark was insufficient to ignite the powder. It was a melted blob of brown goo in the back of the barrel. Using 2400 I’ve gotten fantastic accuracy and never a failure to fire. Most of my five shot groups off the bench are right around 1 moa. It’s not position sensitive but I’ve gotten minutely smaller groups using a filler.

[Larry Gibson]

Lyman's use of the term "filler" was also incorrect. What they suggested using was a "wad". Those are two different applications. The filler is safe when properly used. The wad may or may result in a ringed chamber with any type of use.

[Larry Gibson]

When bench shooting it is many times difficult to determine a difference in accuracy when a filler is used. The rifle is left resting in a horizontal position with the rounds chambered fairly consistently. Unless an effort is made to purposely position the powder differently with each shot not much of a difference will be seen in accuracy.

The real benefit to the use of the filler with such powders in the 45-70 is when hunting, target shooting, plinking, etc., when the rifle is shouldered from any carry or loading position. The filler will ensure the powder is consistently positioned. Of course the additional benefit is consistent ignition with lower pressure/velocity loads, especially with lightweight for cartridge bullets.

[hc18flyer]

NSB- I am interested in the specifics of your 2400 load. I am loading for a Browning HI-wall, mostly 'trapdoor velocities' with Unique. I have the Lee 340 and 400 grain pb's and the RCBS 405 gc mold.
Thanks, hc18flyer

[stubshaft]

I shoot a fair amount of plinking ammo out of my Sharps 1874 and Marlin 1895's, a lot of it loaded with 2400. I have never been a big fan of fillers, as I have witnessed a 45/70 ring the chamber of an 1874 Quigley rifle with light loads of 2400. Now, there may have been another reason the chamber developed a ring in it, but I prefer to err on the side of caution and not use a dacron filler.

[NSB]

Lyman 46th Edition with a “wee bit” of extrapolation. If you don’t have access to this, send me your email via a PM and I will send you a picture of the data.