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Thread: Sub-sonic for hunting...why?

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Milky Duck View Post
    the suppressed shotguns are out there,they have been for years.... subsonic ammunition has been around too,but it sucks in killing power.

    Ive tootooed with subsonic loads in both the .308w and the x39 lots of fun,great for plinking,great for small game AWESOME for the finishing off shot at close range,no ringing ears of blood/brain splatter.
    I would shoot small/medium game at close range in open country with chest shots where animal can be watched and recovered. its like poking an arrow through them...similar hole and same little amount of shock transpher.
    This is one area the USA is way behind a lot of the world. Suppressors are now mainstream for rifles, but you still have to pay the government extortion and a long waiting period so they aren't super common outside of the "gun guy" community. Suppressors in the USA are mostly screw on rifle and pistol cans. There is only one single shotgun suppressor from SilencerCo. It's not bad, but it's still a big muffler on the end of your shotgun. Plus it can only attach by using the correct choke tube thread adapter. It isn't the end of the world but now you #1 need a barrel threaded for choke tubes (which admittedly most people do), and #2 you have to buy their adapters for different chokes. They do not offer a turkey choke, and they also have some warnings against steel shot in some of them.

    I hope I don't hate myself too much for saying this, but this is where Europe has it more figured out than we do with shrouded shotgun barrels. It's already easy to buy shotgun barrels, almost all single barrel guns (pumps, semi-auto, single shot, etc.) have interchangeable barrel. For example Remington could sell the heck out of a shrouded 870 barrel here, yet nothing is on the market, and I don't know any gunsmith who does such a thing. Of course with unlimited money, the sky is the limit.

    As for subsonic ammo sucking in killing power, you are dead wrong. If you are interested in learning how to make it work I can go into detail as I have done a lot of testing in this area. I'll just leave this comparison calculated by KYP ballistics. These loads are near equivalents, yet one is subsonic, recoil is about the same, actually a bit less for the subsonic.

    1 1/8 oz #6 lead at 1250 fps- 253 pellets - 1.55" calc. gel penetration at 40 yards
    1 3/8 oz #5 lead at 1050 fps - 239 pellets - 1.63" calc. gel penetration at 40 yards.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Subsonic lacking killing power???? I will have to send a memo to all those deer that we ate after being hit with a 130 gr 45 cal PRB from my muzzleloader at 80-100 yards. The PRB gets launched at about 1500 but goes subsonic very, very quickly. You are right about small caliber relatively light boolits, however.

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
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    it doesnt lack killing power.....its ALL about bullet PLACEMENT as it has stuff all shock power at subsonic velocity...its VERY similar to a small broadhead....

    one of the most interesting suppressed shotguns was a U/O that was heavily ported and had large external suppressor over both barrels,almost size of drainpipe on side of your house.... BUT because you not allowed to use it on waterfowl...and its quieter but not super quiet unless you use subsonic loads which kill no where near as well,it sort of fizzled.
    there is a company here making suppressed single barrel guns now and they popular with pig hunters for shooting bailed pigs at close range... the lack of noise/reduced noise is ideal for dogs hearing.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milky Duck View Post
    it doesnt lack killing power.....its ALL about bullet PLACEMENT as it has stuff all shock power at subsonic velocity...its VERY similar to a small broadhead....

    one of the most interesting suppressed shotguns was a U/O that was heavily ported and had large external suppressor over both barrels,almost size of drainpipe on side of your house.... BUT because you not allowed to use it on waterfowl...and its quieter but not super quiet unless you use subsonic loads which kill no where near as well,it sort of fizzled.
    there is a company here making suppressed single barrel guns now and they popular with pig hunters for shooting bailed pigs at close range... the lack of noise/reduced noise is ideal for dogs hearing.
    I'd love to see that here. There is not a single manufacturer in the USA making barrels or complete guns like that. Again, if you are interested in learning how to make subsonic shotgun loads that will perform every bit as good as anything else on game, just PM me.

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy gumbo333's Avatar
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    405 gr cast subsonic in a 45/70. Ya, it works.
    Never trade luck for skill.

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy John in WYO's Avatar
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    Needing hearing protection for shotguns?

    https://www.metrogun.com/

  7. #27
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    My son-in law owned and now runs Discrete Ballistics in Wyoming that specializes in subsonic hunting ammo. It's all in the bullet and he has several bullet patents that make for darn deadly stuff. He and daughter have taken their deer this year with both 300 blackout and the new 9.8 or whatever it is. Both suppressed rifles. Crazy deadly stuff at anything like decent ranges and you don't kill your ears in the process like I did with pistol shooting in my earlier times.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by John in WYO View Post
    Needing hearing protection for shotguns?

    https://www.metrogun.com/
    Yeah, I'd just carry a 8' long spear and use that instead.

  9. #29
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    The only subsonic I have shot deer with have been 45 Colt with a soft bullet. They were very effective. For big game it's all about energy transfer as it relates to wound damage. For cast I have never taken big game with less than a 35 cal. I have taken deer with 270, 338 and 375 jacketed bullets at 2,700 to 3,000 FPS with bullets designed for much heavier game. They failed to expand or create significant wound damage. Recovers were difficult at best.

    With bullets that properly expand the 300BO should get the job done at sub velocities. With bullets that don't expand or transfer energy via a flat point I would think they would be the same or less effective than the high velocity nonexpanding spitzers that proved to be very ineffective from my actual experience.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
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  10. #30
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    Through the years I've learned that a heavy for caliber boolit that will fully penetrate, malleable alloy, flat meplat, & slower velocity gets best results in my opinion, because I don't want blood-shot meat. Always had to throw away to the dogs meat ruined by excessive velocity combined with over expansion. I like quiet loads for many reasons which most have been spoken of already, including burning less powder (Tite Wad).

  11. #31
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    The ONLY reason for 300BO being popular is that it feeds in an AR15 with only a barrel change. Otherwise, a 158gr .38 special out of a lever gun is a better subsonic hunting round. At 100yds, the drop is only a few inches, big meplat for the caliber, easily tailored to your rifle/speed, and you get expansion with soft pistol bullets. I just sold my 300BO reloading dies and brass, as it is eclipsed by 30-30, 7.62x39 when supersoninc, and 38/357, 45acp, and 22lr when subsonic. Yes 300BO runs in a AR, but its mostly hype.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    I've deer hunted the past 7 seasons with a suppressor, but I use standard velocity ammo. The gun is still quite loud from the sonic boom, but is considered hearing safe.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photog View Post
    The ONLY reason for 300BO being popular is that it feeds in an AR15 with only a barrel change...
    That is an astoundingly good reason for being popular. Other than the whole 300 Whisper thing, 300 BO is one of the coolest things going for the AR15 if you ask me. Sure, it isn't quite to the level of 30-30 at the top end, but it is pretty close. There's nothing wrong with a 38 special, but there's nothing wrong with the 300 BO either. One works great in a lever rifle. The other works great in the most popular rifle in America.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moleman- View Post
    I've deer hunted the past 7 seasons with a suppressor, but I use standard velocity ammo. The gun is still quite loud from the sonic boom, but is considered hearing safe.
    Not hearing safe, but it's better. I don't think you are going to damage your hearing any more from that than running a chainsaw without ear plugs once in a while.

  15. #35
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    I made the dreadful mistake of shooting a ported short barreled 357 w- full house load. Permanent damage to my right ear after only 1 round. I Like Quiet!

  16. #36
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
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    It is not a matter of "need", I don't hunt much anymore so I really do not "need" to have guns.
    I do kind of see red when I hear people saying what I "need" or don't "need", we get enough of that baloney from the Democrats.

  17. #37
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    Would you need a firearm if someone breached your home? Just Curious?

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    P.S. Hard core conservative here!!! versa-06

  19. #39
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    The 2nd was not written for hunting. The "need" for firearms is to keep the "leaders" inline.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  20. #40
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by versa-06 View Post
    Would you need a firearm if someone breached your home? Just Curious?
    Being I have three of them on my person it is kind of academic.
    At the moment I don't need a fire extinguisher either, but I do have them.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check