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Thread: (Sawdust) fluxing with dip casting.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    (Sawdust) fluxing with dip casting.

    Just read the article by Glen E. Fryxell, "The Simple Act of Fluxing" on http://www.lasc.us/FryxellFluxing.htm. I've not cast in many years but am getting back in now and actually did use sawdust - my friend is a luthier so I always had plenty on hand. Though I started out with a smaller Lee bottom pour, I pretty quickly moved to dipping with a ladle and pot. As I recall, I would periodically re-flux and remove the floating particulate over the course of the smelting or casting session, though I don't recall any systematic approach.

    I see the value of leaving the flux "float" on during a bottom-pour session:

    A heaping tablespoon is just about right for a 10 lb pot, stirred in thoroughly to begin with and then left in place. Halfway through the pot, the lead-pot is stirred again, this time the activated carbon (dross) is removed. By leaving the charred sawdust on the melt for the first half or so of the casting session, a barrier is formed to slow down the oxidation of the tin, and by removing the charred dross before reaching the bottom, the sequestered impurities are removed before they can sneak through the bottom-pour spout and possibly cause inclusions.
    But how do you guys who dip go about with your fluxing during the session?

    (ps: I am intrigued by the Lee 20# Magnum melt furnace. The RCBS Pro-Melt 2 looks awesome, but I'm afraid the price point would put me in immediate jeopardy of death by wife. Your thoughts on the Lee for dipper casting?).
    -Paul

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    I use beeswax for flux. Between beeswax and sawdust and paraffin wax, beeswax does the best job. Maybe sawdust checks all the boxes from a scientific view, but beeswax makes for the easiest casting lead. With sawdust, the lead seems sluggish, not as flowing. With beeswax it behaves better, casts better.

    I flux, then skim. Then when i start having too much dross I skim again. After a couple times adding my sprues back in I’ll flux again.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    I'm not a fan of ladle casting, mainly for the fact that I don't have the eight to ten hands it seems to require, but you do bring up another legitimate concern - all the oxides and impurities will naturally float to the top. To that end, the Pro Melt is probably your buy once, cry once option for bottom pour.

    A blob of SPG lube stirred into the melt seems to help clean things up. I expect for ladle casting, you'll need to do it more often.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I tried sawdust once and concluded it just makes a mess unless you use a bottom pour pot. I use rosin flakes or old lubed bullets to flux and simply do it any time I add sprues or the surface starts looking grey and lumpy. I probably use a bottom pour more often than a ladle but am comfortable with either method.

    For ladle, I use a turkey burner turned way down for a heat source and an old dutch oven to hold the lead. I let the ladle rest on the melted lead and hold the mold with the sprue to the side, then load the ladle, place the spout against the mold and rotate both 90 degrees to fill the cavity(s). Never had too much trouble with that technique.

  5. #5
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    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    When I add new lead to the pot I flux with sawdust. To reestablish the tin in the melt I flux with wax. I do this whenever my melt gets stringy, or when I see tin on the surface of the pot. Those of us who ladle pour do increase the oxidation of tin simply because we are exposing more of the lead to the air. Thus especially on a long session I may wax flux several times.
    Wayne the Shrink

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    I read From Ingot to Target and learned that saw dust is good. I dip from the top after fluxing with saw dust, but I use an old GI spoon to clear off the stuff on top before I dip my ladle. I have not had any trouble; although a buddy tried it and set off his smoke alarm in his shop and back at his main house. He's not particularly a fan of it.
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    I only use sawdust while smelting, and it works quite well when combined with paraffin or beeswax. I personally wouldn't use sawdust in a bottom pour pot though. The only flux I put inside my RCBS casting pot is beeswax. I don't ladle cast so it may well have an application for that purpose, I never tried it.

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    Stir the pot with a stick, then skim the pot.
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  9. #9
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    check reviews of the Pro-Melt 2

    some concerns seemed to have occured
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I got tired of dripping pots, which waste way more time than ladle casting. Pick up a lyman ladle. It pours from the bottom of the ladle. I'm able to fill a 6 cav 45 Automatic mould with one scoop.

  11. #11
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    Pressure caster with an open top Lee Magnum Melter and Lyman spouted dipper .

    While casting I flux and skim the top clean ... for me this keeps the "particulates" out of my dipper , moulds and boolits .

    When fluxing I use a 3-step process , on top of melt I place some wood pencil sharpener shavings , a little Marvelux and a little beeswax ... then stir well with a little wood paddle , scraping bottom and sides . Leave the carbonized flux on top untill ready to dip boolits ... then skim the top clean and discard all the carbonized top stuff that has floated up .

    The Lee Magnum Melter is a great value . I've used Lee electric pots for 45 years and never have one fail on me , started with 5 lb pot then 10 lb and then got the 20 lb LMM abot 12 years ago ... it's the best ... melts 20lbs of cold metal in 20 - 30 minutes and can keep the alloy as hot as you want it ... I wish my first pot had been the 20 lb Magnum Melter ... with small pots you waste a lot of time waiting for metal to melt ... 20 lbs gives you a good supply that allows you to cast more .
    Gary
    Last edited by gwpercle; 12-01-2022 at 02:32 PM. Reason: add reccomendation for Lee Magnum Melter
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  12. #12
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    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    Let me clarify - I use sawdust to clean the melt. That is basically once and done until I introduce more lead to the pot. This is a 20 lb. pot on a gas burner. I use wax to reduce the tin back into the melt, this is done multiple times in a session as I am dumping the sprue back into the pot (splashes) and over running the mold to get complete fill in some of my molds, (more splashes) and thus am exposing a lot more of the lead to oxygen than a bottom pour guy will.
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  13. #13
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Wow, didn't realize all the replies, thanks guys. Lots to think on. I guess it's not much beeswax per session but at least here it comes at a bit of a premium - can only get it locally from an "heirloom" candlemaking place, and online I don't need anywhere near as much quantity, so given truckloads of free sawdust, well....

    I also used to use dried up leaves, IIRC. In lieu of beeswax, how about cheap wax by way of tea lights, or something like this?
    -Paul

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinlever View Post
    Wow, didn't realize all the replies, thanks guys. Lots to think on. I guess it's not much beeswax per session but at least here it comes at a bit of a premium - can only get it locally from an "heirloom" candlemaking place, and online I don't need anywhere near as much quantity, so given truckloads of free sawdust, well....

    I also used to use dried up leaves, IIRC. In lieu of beeswax, how about cheap wax by way of tea lights, or something like this?
    Paraffin works, too - and it's usually easy to find; all I ever used to flux for the first few years I was casting. Only problem is that it ignites easily and burns.

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    I have found beeswax works better than candle wax. My experience is when using candle wax, the melt doesn’t act any different than sawdust, it’s just less messy.

    I use about a table spoon of beeswax every casting session. I got some from a member here and been using it for 7-8 years now and just started to make a dent. It’s worth paying whatever it takes in my opinion as it’s a superior flux. Atleast from the perspective of the way it makes the melt act. It also keeps the dross from forming again less quickly than the others, in my experience.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    OK, thanks guys. Do you use the wax for both smelting and casting, or just casting? I can get a pound of beeswax for about $15, and I know a little goes a long way so it's probably not really a big deal. Just never used it except in making lube. I can get a block on Amazon or locally, in little granules.

    Edit: I believe I read that when using beeswax you stir it in, and flame the smoke, is that correct? Do you do it immediately after stirring, or let it sit for a minute or so?
    Last edited by huntinlever; 12-01-2022 at 04:51 PM.
    -Paul

  17. #17
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    I use this:

    https://www.hobbylobby.com/Crafts-Ho...lock/p/CA50100

    Lasts 3-4 years for my casting pot.

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    I use sawdust and candle wax when rendering wheel weights. And beeswax for actual casting.

    I put a pea sized bit in my pot and let it bake about a minute. Then stir it in real good. Then skim. It makes the lead flow better somehow. I get less inclusions using it. Maybe because I think it works better I do a better job? If you go that route I’d certainly like a report of how ya like it.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazoo View Post
    I use sawdust and candle wax when rendering wheel weights. And beeswax for actual casting.

    I put a pea sized bit in my pot and let it bake about a minute. Then stir it in real good. Then skim. It makes the lead flow better somehow. I get less inclusions using it. Maybe because I think it works better I do a better job? If you go that route I’d certainly like a report of how ya like it.
    Awesome. Thanks, will give it a go.
    -Paul

  20. #20
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Thanks - this is Amazon, it's what I used before for the lube. I liked it. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...B6UZDO3T&psc=1 Though it's pretty convenient to use the granules (not sure what they're called), I've found. Locally these granules are just a couple bucks more, probably go with it.
    -Paul

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