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Thread: FAL ftf problem

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    FAL ftf problem

    I built this rifle several years ago and shot it quite a bit up until a year or so ago. This past week I took it out just for the fun of it and suddenly I have this problem of the bolt not picking up a round from the magazine. It will push the round just far enough forward for the bullet nose to enter the chamber then the head of the case drops down and the bolt rides up on the side of the case.

    At first I thought it might be the Duracoated magazines, although I never had a problem with them before, so I switched to some brand new magazines. Same thing. Most of these brand new magazine have never had a cartridge inserted into them so it not like there would be spring fatigue. I have 20+ magazines and the problem happens with ALL of them. It is completely random. I may get 4-5 rounds to run or it may happen one after another and the number of rounds in the magazine makes no difference.

    The magazines are fully, snuggly seated to the bottom of the receiver so they can't go any higher and they do not wiggle or wobble whatsoever.

    I had installed USA followers and base plates so I swapped out the USA follower for the original follower in a couple of Duracoated and couple of new magazines. While I had them apart, I thoroughly cleaned them and even very lightly polished the feed lips a bit with some 500 grit cloth. No joy.

    My next thought was perhaps I had my gas adjustment incorrect and was short stroking. Nope, fully closed, wide open or any where in between made no difference.

    I inspected the bolt thinking the part that strips the round from the magazine was damaged or badly worn. I then compared it with the bolt in my 270-308 FAL and I can see absolutely no difference. In fact, I swapped the bolts and manually operated the rifle, I didn't fire because I didn't feel like messing with the head space, and it also malfunctioned the same way.

    I am shooting the same ammunition that I have shot in all my FALs, of which I have had a dozen or so over the years, so I'm reasonably certain it is not an ammunition problem.

    As I stated earlier, I did not have a problem until this past week so it is extremely frustrating for this to pop up out of the blue and nothing I have tried helps.

    I could go to the FAL forum but, by and large, it is inhabited by a fairly large number of jerks and I would prefer not to take the usual verbal abuse that comes with posting a problem there.
    When it's time to fight, you fight like you are the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark.... and brother, it's STARTING TO RAIN!!

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    "I am shooting the same ammunition that I have shot in all my FALs, of which I have had a dozen or so over the years, so I'm reasonably certain it is not an ammunition problem."

    The short stroking is most often caused by two problems. The first you have eliminated with the gas port adjustment not making any difference. The second is insufficient gas port pressure. Are you sure this is the same ammunition as used before? If a load of your own are you sure what it is, especially if a cast bullet load? A test with new milsurp equivelent M80 NATO ball or with some LC M80 ball would answer that question.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you for the response.

    Indeed, I thought of that but since I can duplicate the problem using a different bolt and running it manually, I more or less eliminated the short stroke idea. The bullet is IMI 150 gr. FMJ over a recommended charge of 846 which I personally loaded. This is the same load I have loaded since I started my infatuation with FALs back in the mid 90s. I don't have any of the ammo that you recommend, however, I do have some LC Match ammo that I can try and see if it makes a difference.

    Just to be clear, this ammo was loaded recently, not loaded in the 90s. It is the same components and so forth.
    Last edited by roysha; 11-27-2022 at 03:39 PM.
    When it's time to fight, you fight like you are the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark.... and brother, it's STARTING TO RAIN!!

  4. #4
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    Gas orifice partially plugged with carbon?
    Weak spring?

    DG

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    When you built it from a kit, did you clean and relube the recoil spring and follower? I've seen some that were cosmolined up/dirty and were the cause of short stroking.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Don't flame me but you are sure of and about your inch and metric piles?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    Whose action?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Good news and bad news.

    First, the good news. When I went to get the Match ammo I discovered I had a sealed box of the ammo the Larry Gibson recommended. I have no idea when, where, or why I acquired it but it was a welcome sight. Loaded two magazines with 10 rounds each and the rifle ran all 20 rounds without a hitch just like it used to. I realize 20 rounds is a very small indicator but given that with my ammo I was lucky to get three in a row, I figure it's telling me something.

    Now the not so good news. I had loaded this batch of ammunition about 1 1/2 years ago and at the time everything seemed fine. I thought the perhaps I had misadjusted my measure, although I double and triple check, so I broke down 5 rounds and weighed the charges, spot on. However, the powder looked a bit odd so I got out the jug of powder which I had used for this ammo and took a sniff. GACK!! I seems that I am now the proud owner of 10+ lbs. of deteriorated 846. I was shocked to say the least. This powder is not that old and has been kept in a very stable environment along with all my other powder, some of which is 35+ years old and still as good as the day I bought it. In fact, I have some RL-7 that is crowding 45 years and it still pushes the 25 grain 17 caliber HOR bullet out of my 17 REM at a bit over 4000 fps. Yes, that is chronographed.

    So I guess my next step will be to load some 308 rounds with a powder that I know is good and try that. If that works, then I guess I get to spend a "few hours" tearing down around a 1000+ rounds of 308 and probably at least twice that of 223.

    This does not explain why I could reproduce the malfunction manually but if the bad powder is the root of the problem than I can fix that.

    Indeed I checked the gas port and made sure the tube was not leaking, which it should not be since I soldered it in because the threads were a bit iffy. Someone at some point had apparently turned the tube out without removing the pin and I wanted to make sure it would not start leaking at some time in the future.

    This rifle was squeaky clean from end to end. It came with enough glop on it, I just put it into my solvent tank and scrubbed everything, which I did with every build because I have never bought a kit that was not filthy with cosmoline and who knows what other kinds of gunk.

    With the exception of the barrel threads and they are very close to the same, some furniture items, rear sight, and most importantly the magazines, the inch and metric parts are, more or less, interchangeable. However, this one was one I wanted to keep so I made sure EVERYTHING was/is metric, and G-1 model correct.

    It is an EARLY Entreprise G-1 marked receiver and DESPITE all the hyperbole about how bad they supposedly are, I don't buy into that train of thought because mine has run HUNDREDS upon HUNDREDS of rounds with no problems until now, which all indication seem to point to ammunition.

    So off the the loading bench I go to try some different powder.

    Thank you all for your input.
    When it's time to fight, you fight like you are the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark.... and brother, it's STARTING TO RAIN!!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check