I may have been wrong about red dot sights on handguns

[Mk42gunner]

I was in one of the semi-local pawnshops today, looking for a bigger chainsaw. No luck so I started looking at the pistol case.

I asked to look at one of the Sig 365's with a mounted RDS, I even told the owner I was not going to buy it I just wanted to try the sight picture.

I was very surprised when the red dot was immediately visible, definitely not my experience with either scopes or when I tried a red dot on my Ruger SSM. I can now see how they could be useful.

But they still add bulk to a carry gun. For holster carry okay; for concealed carry, I'm still not sold on them.

Then he showed me a flat topped something (I really wasn't curious enough to look at the make or model)that had a green dot with a circle, even with my fuzzy vision it would be useable.

Robert

[RickinTN]

I may be wrong but on a carry gun if you need it there is only enough time to point and shoot. If you take the time to aim anything you are probably done.
Rick

[BNE]

A red dot on a rifle (22 or 9mm) was VERY INTUITIVE for me. Just had to look at the target, shoulder the gun and the red dot was there.

Pistols on the other hand, I have not gotten used to. I’m still trying.

BNE

[fecmech]

I don't think they're practical as far as carry but they sure do keep us older guys in the game. Once Presbyopia sets in, open sights become very difficult for any precision handgun shooting.

[RickinTN]

I teach shotgun shooters how to point, not aim. In a defensive situation there is no time to look at sight of any type. Look at the aggressor and shoot. If you take the time to aim any kind of sight the aggressor has probably already shot you. Remember, he probably had the upper hand to begin with.
Good Luck, and Merry Christmas to all!
Rick

[BK7saum]

I may be wrong but on a carry gun if you need it there is only enough time to point and shoot. If you take the time to aim anything you are probably done.
Rick

If you take the time to be proficient and practice presentations there is no aiming or finding the dot. As soon as you are looking over the pistol the dot should be immediately present in the"window". If you have to move the pistol around to find the dot, you haven't spent enough time drawing amd presenting the firearm. If it is an immediate up close and personal situation, point and fire from clearing holster, just as you always should.

Out to 7-10 yards, most (who practice) should be able to put rounds in the scoring ring without usage of any sights.

[megasupermagnum]

I may be wrong but on a carry gun if you need it there is only enough time to point and shoot. If you take the time to aim anything you are probably done.
Rick

Every pistol and CCW class I've been in has said the opposite.

[GhostHawk]

I have Red Dot sights on both my Ruger Mk III 22/45's, and love them. Concealed carry pistols are another story. There I assume the range is going to be short enough that for me at least they really are not needed.

On my pistol caliber carbines I love them. And I have a 2x Red Dot on a .44mag handi rifle that is wicked fast and accurate out to 75 yards. Beyond that most any decent scope can do better. Not faster, but tighter groups. Even a 2.5 MOA dot is covering 2.5 inches of target. And those rounds could be on target, and hit anywhere in that 2.5" circle.

So IMO better for shorter range. Great for inside the house or thick cover.

[Finster101]

Every pistol and CCW class I've been in has said the opposite.

I agree. You can't miss fast enough. Hits matter.

[M-Tecs]

Every pistol and CCW class I've been in has said the opposite.

Same for me but more importantly are the after-gunfight testimonies. I've been reading accounts of mostly police shooting since the early 70's and the one that has stood out are the ones (that at a minimum) remember seeing and lining up the front sight had good results. The ones that remember sight alignment ended with great results. These were mostly competitive shooters. This has been a while ago since I've seen the results but the LE that were competitive shooters were averaging 1.3 shots per hit. The non-competitive shooting LE were averaging 15 shots per hit.

[imashooter2]

I may be wrong but on a carry gun if you need it there is only enough time to point and shoot. If you take the time to aim anything you are probably done.
Rick

Every weekend you can go to a USPSA, ICORE or IDPA match and find guys that can aim and shoot pretty darn fast.

[contender1]

My first red dot was not something I thought would work for me. I sold it.
Later on,, I found out I was the one in the wrong. I now own several.
My uses have primarily been on handguns. And I see a LOT of handgunners at my USPSA matches. I've been shooting USPSA since 1998.

The biggest problem people have with a red dot,, on a handgun,, is simply,, an improper grip. Once you train your body, mind & muscles to re-create a consistent grip everytime,, your red dot will be "right there." Otherwise,, a slightly off grip can & will cause the shooter to "hunt" for the dot.

As for a CCW handgun,, each person has to choose whatever works best for them. I know several folks who's daily carry gun has a red (or green) dot optic.

And in USPSA,,, the "Carry Optics" division is the most popular one currently.

[Led]

I have several pistol caliber rifles with red dots. My favorite being a Ruger 77/357. I've got a red dot for my GP100 that only does target work. It's nice and does improve my groups.

As for carry guns I tend to prefer very small auto loaders (Beretta Tomcat is my favorite) so the red dot options are few to none.

As for shot accuracy in a gun fight, that boils down to practice, practice and practice no mater what sighting system you're using.

Later,
Stephen

[M-Tecs]

I've done a 180 on red/green dot for carry. It took a learning curve but the low light level advantages out way any of the perceived disadvantages. That being said not all dot sights are created equal. Some are flat-out junk and some are very very good.

[Gray Fox]

Unfortunately for those of us with chronic astigmatism a red dot looks like a glob of red spaghetti. I've pretty much gone back to revolvers and the basics; good presentation from concealment, flash sight picture and a consistent smooth trigger pull with the emphasis on making the first shot one that counts. Revolvers loaded with snap caps really make dry fire practice easy, too. GF

[M-Tecs]

I have astigmatism and yes some dots don't work for me. I don't know why but I don't have any comet issues with my Holosun 407's and 507's 32 with the MOA Ring & 2 MOA Dot.

[imashooter2]

Holographic sights (EOTech and Holosun) have the dot inside the glass. Red dots project the light off the lens and back to your eye. This fundamental difference is a godsend for those of us that suffer from astigmatism. Unfortunately, they are a bit large for carry optics.

[M-Tecs]

Holographic sights (EOTech and Holosun) have the dot inside the glass. Red dots project the light off the lens and back to your eye. This fundamental difference is a godsend for those of us that suffer from astigmatism. Unfortunately, they are a bit large for carry optics.

Thanks, I did not know that.

The 407 X2 works great on my two Sig 365XL's and a Springfield Hellcat micro-compact. Since I retired, I work part-time at a Gunshop. I've installed a lot of red dots and the Holosuns worked best for me. In addition to astigmatism I am also red/green color deficient. Both the red and green Holosun work for me but green is better. Red lasers don't work for me but green works very well even during the day. Most red dots I don't see well and they look like a comet. The Holosun's work great for me.

[ScrapMetal]

Then he showed me a flat topped something (I really wasn't curious enough to look at the make or model)that had a green dot with a circle, even with my fuzzy vision it would be useable.

Robert

Robert,

FYI - That "flat top" was most likely the SIG 365 SAS I love the sight on that gun and the "no snag" design for CCW. I picked one up for my wife (CCW) for Christmas and am considering getting one myself for a backup gun.

-Ron

[Milky Duck]

so no one has mentioned the other option...red dot ON the target... the lazer beam.
mate has red dot on his .44magnum rifle for bailed pigs...average range of shots would be 10 yards..pretty much ideal,but so would a lazer.