Coated bullet leading issue

[Sefuller]

I've recently noticed a fairly severe leading issue on my Walther PDP which has somewhere around 1,200 - 1,500 rounds of mostly Hi-tek coated bullets and some factory ammo. I've been loading 125gr round nose Hi-tek coated bullets over 4 or 4.1 grains of 231, CCI 500 primers in mixed range brass. I noticed previously that I would occasionally get little silver slivers at the case mouth after seating and I increased my bell, but also noticed that in nearly every single instance where there was scraped coating, the brass was CBC. My crimp is set to just take the flare from the bell out of the case. I recently switched from a Dillon SDB to a Dillon 550, with Redding competition pro die set. My OAL is 1.12 or a little less which plunks and spins with no problem in my barrel. The PDP has a polygonal barrell, but I have shot lots of Hi-tek bullets through my PPQ which has the identical barrel with no issues - other factors may have changed however since I shot that gun (powder, crimp, OAL...). I have slugged the barrel at 355, and the bullets are 356. When I first noticed that there was leading in my barrel, it had already built up to a pretty significant amount and I spent a few hours trying to clean it using everything I had on hand including copper chore boy on patch and then on a brush, Hoppes 9, Sweets 762, Balistol, a paper towel soaked in penetrating oil left in the barrel for a couple hours, Lewis lead remover, and I even tried that homemade toxic potion Reds something or other. In the end the only way I was able to remove all of the lead was with lapping compound on a patch run through the barrel 50 or more times. Yesterday was the first day using the new press and dies and I was confident after a dozen dummy rounds produced bullets that were unscarred when pulled that I was good to go. I loaded 20 rounds and went to the range only to come home to find lead deposits again over the whole length of the barrel. A friend who has cast and shot 10s of thousands of bullets said he has never seen such tenacious deposits. When I scope the clean PDP barrel and the clean PPQ barrel, I don't see any difference in terms of the finish or anything that may be cause the one to lead where the other didn't seem to. The PPQ barrel also slugs at 355. At this point the amount of time and energy spent removing the lead is causing diminishing enthusiasm for further experimentation. My questions are, is it necessary to have compromised coating in order to produce leading? What other suggestions might you have to resolve my issue?

Thanks much for any insights!

[dondiego]

Try sizing the bullets to 0.357 or 0.358.

[sigep1764]

358 is what all of my 9mm pistols prefer, including a Walther PPS. I had to go to a custom powder thru expander for my Dillon. The original had a .353 expander spud and was no good. It would allow the brass to squeeze the lead boolit down to a size that leaded the barrel.

[Sefuller]

358 is what all of my 9mm pistols prefer, including a Walther PPS. I had to go to a custom powder thru expander for my Dillon. The original had a .353 expander spud and was no good. It would allow the brass to squeeze the lead boolit down to a size that leaded the barrel.

I should have mentioned I have a UniqueTek expander/powder funnel that expands to 357, and expands the case deeper than the Dillon powder funnel.

[sigep1764]

Good! It's very common to overlook the expander when starting. Glad you have one. I would try those boolits at .357 or .358. 90% of issues are caused by undersized boolits.

[P Flados]

The 9mm was my biggest challenge for finding boolit happiness.

After I found my solution, I posted responses in a few “9mm problem” threads. Eventually, I went back grabbed some stuff I wrote and put it all together. I keep the words saved for use as needed.

First lets start out with something that combines a good measure of truth with some humor. The following was at post 10 of the link at the bottom.

Take your time and read the following. Then do it. As corny and funny as it may sound, it is probably the best solution.

Cast in a 9 mm can be very frustrating. Do not let that put you off. The solution is simple. There 10 easy steps to the 9mm.


Step 1: Try what you have and what you think might work. Take notes. You might get lucky.

Step 2: If step 1 did not work, tell us exactly what you did.

Step 3: Sort through the 50 suggestions, pick one.

Step 4: Try it and hope you get lucky.

Step 5: If it did not work, tell us exactly what you did and what happened.

Step 6: Sort through the 40 suggestions. Pick a new suggestion.

Step 7: Try it and hope you get lucky.

Step 8: If it did not work, go back to step 5.

Step 9: After you get something that works, assume you are an expert and provide suggestions when some else shares their problems.

Step 10: After a bunch of newbies ignore your suggestions, come to understand that the 9mm is too finicky to ever be simple and work the same way for anybody else.


The combination below has worked for me and may help others figure out something that may want to try next.

• I use a custom deep plug 0.3575" expander
• I use 0.3595" PC coated boolits (Lee 120 TC)
• I use select brass, a mix of Blazer, FC and CCI
• I seat and I do flare removal as separate steps
• I can now use any powder I want and loads up to book max with great accuracy and no leading.

I have come to believe that much of the 9mm "just can't figure it out frustration" comes from having boolits sized down by the case more than you think and/or just not going with big enough boolits. I am also convinced that sorting headstamps is an easy thing to try early on when your are having problems. More details of my basis for these can be found in post 37 of

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...cast-9mm/page3

[Bazoo]

I was surprised when I tried different expander plugs in 44 spl that anything over .002 smaller causes base swaging. Even with wheel weight alloy bullets.


Glad you got it sorted out.

[Cast10]

I have read that CBC brass is a No Go. I don’t use it for reloads.

I’m running the same Lee mold in my Glock’s with zero leading.

I size to .357.

I mix SOWW’s and Hardball for a BHN of 11.3. SN 1% SB 2.57% PB 96.4%

I use standard carbide RCBS dies and crimp only enough to hold the bullet in place firmly. I only bell enough for the bullet to sit on top. Nothing special.

I Powder Coat, so my boolits are coated and heated per SOP here, cooled slightly but still warm and run through the sizer. I see around 90+ degrees when I size.

Brass - Winchester, Federal, Remington, Speer/Blazer, Starline; NO CBC or Stepped brass.

COAL - 1.080”

Performance - G19 1095 fps ; G26 1055 fps

[waksupi]

Sounds like the alloy is too hard.

[oley55]

I had to finally start sorting 9mm brass after I discovered the CBC bras walls were thicker than all others and created both seating and boolit swaging issues. CBC brass equal recycle bin fodder.

[fredj338]

I had to finally start sorting 9mm brass after I discovered the CBC bras walls were thicker than all others and created both seating and boolit swaging issues. CBC brass equal recycle bin fodder.

I also toss CBC & many other foreign brands. I load mostly 147 & they seat to a depth that causes a small bulge at the bullet base. I size 0.357" & PC mostly. I have never had leading issues in anything 9mm I shoot. MBF expander on a 650 with RCBS dies.

[charlie b]

My HK with a polygonal barrel does not like PC. There is no throat so the edges of the 'rifling' simply scrape off the PC and the bare lead is free to contaminate the bore. If I shot it more I'd have Doug throat it, but, it is a car gun and doesn't get fired much. Practice ammo is jacketed.

[Sefuller]

My HK with a polygonal barrel does not like PC. There is no throat so the edges of the 'rifling' simply scrape off the PC and the bare lead is free to contaminate the bore. If I shot it more I'd have Doug throat it, but, it is a car gun and doesn't get fired much. Practice ammo is jacketed.

Sorry, I'm relatively new to this - can you explainthroat vs no throat, and how a barrel is throated?

[sigep1764]

Sefuller, picture the beginning of your barrel right after the chamber as a funnel. This small funnel is a throat. It gently introduces the boolit to the rifling. A lot of manufacturers have started skipping this step in the manufacture of their barrels. Dougguy on this forum offers the service of machining this throat into folks barrels.

[414gates]

The most likely cause of the coating being shaved off is crimped brass.

9mm reloads do not need crimping.

Flare the case mouth just enough that a bullet can sit in the case mouth without tipping over. If you are flaring more than necessary, then you are crimping to compensate - most likely over crimping.

Then seat it. No need to crimp. If your die seats and crimps in one step, set it up again by backing the die out so that the crimp ring does not touch the case rim, and just set the seating stem.

Do the plunk test till you get it right. You should not have to crimp at all.

A powder coated bullet, even pure lead, does not lose it's coating in a pistol bore, unless the bore is pitted.

[kevin c]

The brass or undersized bullets certainly could be the problem, but, given how hard you found it to clean out your barrel, there’s another possibility: if the coating is under cured, it may be leaving tenacious deposits in your bore.

HiTek is great stuff and I’ve used it for years, both commercial bought and now home coated, but it has to be cured right. I’ve shot underbaked home or commercially coated cast that smokes, smells of burnt plastic and leaves residue in the bore that is hard to clean out.

[Sefuller]

Thanks for the explanations, I believe then that my barrel is throated since I see "ramps" of sorts just after the chamber. I have attempted to attach a photo of what I believe is leading (as opposed to coating). I am going to the range today to try some bullets sized to 357. We'll see if that changes anything!

[Sig]

Are you seating & crimping in the same or separate steps? You mentioned lead shavings. Possible you're shaving the PC off.

[Sefuller]

Are you seating & crimping in the same or separate steps? You mentioned lead shavings. Possible you're shaving the PC off.

Separate. Just barely putting any crimp on as noted in other's posts.

[Sefuller]

The upsized bullet experiment did not solve the problem. I loaded 20 rounds of 130gr coated bullets with the 231 and shot 10 each through my PDP and PPQ and both barrels leaded. I am going to try a few rounds with a different powder after getting the barrels clean again.