Lee 6000 .38 Spl - The Journey Starts

[dverna]

GWS,

Will try the powdered graphite...just need to get some.

I am hoping moving the powder drop to station 3 resolves the issue with pumping powder onto the primer stem. I will drill a hole in the bottom cover plate so I do not build up powder in there.

I really want this to work.

Appreciate your kindness in offering the part to feed those last three primers but that has not been an issue yet. I have nor been able to load more than 50 rounds so far without a hang up. I may add a vibrator like I have on my shotshell reloader to help with primer delivery. Tapping the tray will work short term but the vibrator should help out if I keep the press. BTW, if you figure out a way to signal when the primers are about to run out it would a very useful accessory. Maybe a proximity switch? Dillon has a dead simple system when primers are low. Running out of primers on this press and dumping powder onto the primer station will not be a pleasant result. I think using the third position of the tool head to charge powder makes even more sense in light of these issues.

BTW, do not cycle the press with unprimed cases. There is speculation the primer stem can get jammed in the primer pocket in the case and cause a problem. I was using unprimed cases to test with and that have caused my first major jam.

I really want this press to work but so far it has been frustrating. I have cooled off a bit and will try again. Graf has told me Lee is sending some parts. I was out when the call came in so my fiancé got the call. Not sure what they are sending. Hopefully the new primer shuttle, primer stem, bottom cover and spring are included.

The other change I will make is to mount my Dillon dies. When I loaded those 50 rounds using the Lee dies I had three cases with bad dents. Another user has reported a similar glitch and needed to return the press. I am hoping it is not a press problem but a die problem. Might be wishful thinking.



Let us know how things work once you start cranking out rounds.

[dverna]

Took GWS's advice and gave the primer slide assembly a good dose of powdered graphite as well as the primer stem. I also moved the powder measure to position 3 so any hiccups would not drop powder onto the primer stem. Replaced the Lee dies with my Dillon dies. They seem to have helped, not sure why.

Much improved. Did not install case feeder and hand fed the cases. Of course, bullets were hand fed.

Indexing is not reliable. It may be the clutch disk. Going slow seems to help. This will not run like a 1050 or 650 as it sits now, but I am hoping the new clutch disk is the answer. It is a mickey mouse part and easily mangled. I have some thoughts on modifying it and will see what I can do with the original part when the new parts get here.

Loaded 50 rounds in 9 minutes with one jam. One slightly mashed primer. 40% of rounds (.38 spl with 125 gr bullets) missed the collection bin. Should be able to fab something to resolve and it may not be an issue with shorter cases that are not as top heavy. More mickey mouse engineering but not a deal killer. Again, if you slow down much fewer cases miss the bin. I cannot envision getting rifle cases to drop into the catch bin.

Later today I will try the case feeder and see how it goes.

Replacement parts are being sent from Lee after I advised Graf I wanted to return the machine. These include the clutch disk, new primer slide (I believe this is longer than the original and will report back), new retainer ring, and new primer spring. The improved primer stem and bottom cover are not included in the replacement parts being sent.

I will install the new parts when I get them.

Feeling a bit of love.

My criteria for success will be a production rate of 500 rph. That will be better than a manual index 550 with the safety of an auto index machine. In addition, this press will allow the addition of a powder check die.

[dverna]

Got the case feeder installed. 50 rounds in 6:51. Works out to 435 rph.

Two primers did not seat but they did not cause the primer stem to jam like in the past. With powder now dropping in station 3, powder is not getting poured onto the stem and binding it up. One primer did not seat fully. 94% reliability is not acceptable but I am using a kinked spring so I will chalk it up to that.

Two double case feeds and one case getting trapped between shell carrier and frame. Easy to solve with a little "dam".

I am going to wait for the new parts to get here. In the meantime, will work on a "dam" to keep cases from bouncing under frame and improving ejection. BTW with the case feed installed the ejected rounds bounce off it into the bin. Only two rounds on the floor this time. Should be easy to get that working as it should.

I think 500 rph is doable as I get better with this press. Will know more next week when new parts arrive, and I give it a good cleaning.

One habit I need to get into is looking at the primer feed shuttle. Something that cannot be done on a Dillon...and not required either. If primer shuttle returns with a primer the primer did not get seated.

I could not find replacement springs at ACE. I will want a few on hand and $5 ea seems a bit steep. If anyone has sourced them elsewhere, please post. Maybe Lee could offer a 6 pack of springs for $15.

Much thanks to GSW for the graphite hint and "dissing" me when I deserved it.

[GWS]

Thought you might get a kick out of this.......watch it full screen so you can see what's going on.



I'd really rather Lee develop a better priming system that can empty to the last primer. But since I have this press, I wanted to be able to empty it when the last three just won't fall into the shuttle. So that's why the stop gap measure. It works pretty good, even while it deflects a little when Lee's stupid feed spring is in the way. Ha, Ha......gives those last three primers a "swift kick"!

[rbuck351]

I have three of the old Lee pro 1000s and have been following this thread to see if there newer presses have made dramatic improvements. It appears Lee has not. I spent a lot of hours figuring out how to make the pro 1000s work.The only things I haven't been able to fix is getting the primers to continue to feed after the tray is empty and how to keep powder in the short 9mm cases until the bullet is installed. One should not have to do a lot of fixing on a new press.

I also have a Dillon 550b that is almost fool proof. It's only issue is once or twice in 1000 rounds a primer will jump out of the slider on the way under the case. This causes spilled powder on the press but so far has never caused the press to malfunction.

[dverna]

GWS, that is pretty neat. I am going to try a small vibrator on it like I had on my Spolar shotshell reloader. It will be activated on the downstroke for a second or two.

rbuck, never had a Lee 1000 but two fellows I know had them and gave up on them. Both got 550's. The indexing on the 6000 can be "snappy" and other times not. When it is snappy, I suspect powder will be thrown out of a 9mm case. GWS bought his to load 9mm. He will be able to answer your question. I think I can reduce the snappiness of indexing but at this point it is not affecting loading .38's and I have other bugs I am dealing with.

The press feels solid and hopefully the bugs can be resolved. IMHO, a Dillon user will not be impressed with the 6000.

I have spent at least 10 hours dinking around with the 6000 and it is "not there" yet. I have never needed more than two hours to get any flavor Dillon to produce reloads in quantity. It is apparent Lee did almost no testing before putting the press out and we are essentially "beta testers". Lee is stepping up and helping with free parts and making modifications.

Some people do not know any better, and seem willing to accept lesser performance to save money. There are very few negative comments on the Facebook forum even though some of the videos are painful to watch. It is akin to people who have an ill-tempered dog that needs to be put down but are unable to accept reality.

The press has potential. Someone who thinks they can unbox it and reload 500 rounds the first day needs to buy a Dillon or wait until the bugs on the 6000 are worked out.

Just my opinion.

[GWS]

I agree......but I needed a project this winter not an expensive press......already have 2 of those.....just not Dillons. I watched jmorris turn a Loadmaster into one of the fastest presses I've seen, and I don't recommend people trying to copy that.....he didn't leave detailed instructions.... not for the faint of heart.

Dillons aren't perfect either....closer....yes. So's my green presses. I'm still working on my brother's Dillon 650, trying to teach him to live with it.....and adding the "fixes" that make it better.....and I did the same thing for my Pro 2000 and Pro Chucker 7 presses. Haven't seen a 750 yet. The 550 never interested me, not enough stations for my liking.....5 is better, 7 is better still.....but I admit what got me to buy the 6000 was the 6 stations, and curiosity whether Lee could make 6 work reliably in such a small package. The jury is still out...... Hornady AP's, I haven't given much of a look yet....it's a project imperfect press too.....but I like the smooth plate rotation using half steps. The Pro Chucker is really smooth too.....I think smoother than a "fixed" 650....but that kit isn't installed on my brother's yet, so I will see first hand. None of us like powder jumping out of a short case.

Speaking of smooth.....the 6000 is a little too jerky....maybe there's a fix for that too....but I haven't had that mechanism apart.

[Three44s]

GWS,

The half step on the LNL is not always enough to stop powder getting pitched onto the shell plate. I had trouble with my press charging 380 auto and red dot with a friend loading with it. Since then I saw a supposed fix using a rubber o-ring in place of the factory spring to retain cases. I would rather switch to a less bulky powder to avoid the hassle in the first place.

But the o-ring trick would be easy to try.

Three44s

[dverna]

I agree......but I needed a project this winter not an expensive press......already have 2 of those.....just not Dillons. I watched jmorris turn a Loadmaster into one of the fastest presses I've seen, and I don't recommend people trying to copy that.....he didn't leave detailed instructions.... not for the faint of heart.

I saw that video and you are right. It was impressive. I have seen pictures of Morris's reloading room and IIRC there were a bunch of 1050's mounted. So my little pea brain wonders...if a $300 press can run like shown in the video, why would he keep those 1050's? If he is reading this thread, I hope he shares his reasoning. Frankly, that video was one reason I rolled the dice on the 6000. After all, the next Lee iteration should be better? Right?

As I mentioned earlier, if the 6000 works reasonably well, I intend to sell my 1050 and have two 6000's. One set up in .38 and one in 9mm. I no longer shoot enough to need to produce 750 rph. I do not get my jollies reloading. I want a decent auto-indexing press that has a case feeder and a powder check. I am not wired like most folks on this forum. The only thing worse than reloading is casting. If a press needs constant tinkering it is not for me.

I will be following your journey with the 9mm press. Powder getting kicked out the case becomes an issue with 9mm. Replacing the steel ball with a plastic one may help. Another thought is to use a weaker spring under the ball. Plastic will not last as long but if it will last 20k rounds that would be acceptable. It takes 10 minutes to change it out.

Please keep posting your progress on this thread so we have a repository of information on Lee 6000 others can benefit from.

BTW ordered the vibrator motor and microswitch last night and should have them by the end of the week. Will report on how it works to feed primers once I get it jury rigged up.

[deces]

I agree......but I needed a project this winter not an expensive press......already have 2 of those.....just not Dillons. I watched jmorris turn a Loadmaster into one of the fastest presses I've seen, and I don't recommend people trying to copy that.....he didn't leave detailed instructions.... not for the faint of heart.

Dillons aren't perfect either....closer....yes. So's my green presses. I'm still working on my brother's Dillon 650, trying to teach him to live with it.....and adding the "fixes" that make it better.....and I did the same thing for my Pro 2000 and Pro Chucker 7 presses. Haven't seen a 750 yet. The 550 never interested me, not enough stations for my liking.....5 is better, 7 is better still.....but I admit what got me to buy the 6000 was the 6 stations, and curiosity whether Lee could make 6 work reliably in such a small package. The jury is still out...... Hornady AP's, I haven't given much of a look yet....it's a project imperfect press too.....but I like the smooth plate rotation using half steps. The Pro Chucker is really smooth too.....I think smoother than a "fixed" 650....but that kit isn't installed on my brother's yet, so I will see first hand. None of us like powder jumping out of a short case.

Speaking of smooth.....the 6000 is a little too jerky....maybe there's a fix for that too....but I haven't had that mechanism apart.

Is there enough room under the shell plate for a roller needle bearing like the aftermarket kits for Dillions?

[dverna]

I have been thinking about those 100 rounds I loaded. The jams and hiccups....

I am going to break them all down. I have no confidence I did not get a double charge. With over 500k reloads I have never had a double charge.

I will weigh each charge to determine not only if I got a double charge but analyze powder drop consistency.

[GWS]

I finally, after 2 years sitting on a shelf, decided to used a Lockout Die. I got all the dies set up and passed 3 9mm through the system to test.....perfect. But besides the Lockout die, I'm using another RCBS product a Uniflow because I had it already. Here's my die setup:

1. Lee 9mm Sizer
2. RCBS Powder Measure with powder-thru "M" style expander
3. RCBS Lock Out Powder Cop
4. 3D printed bullet feeder die and bullet collator
5. Lee 9mm Seater
6 Lee 9mm Crimper

A short video of the first case run through; You can see more details full screen:



I used Unique....therefore powder is high.....did not experience spillage, but then this is one cartridge done....a little furtively, carefully?

Notice how straight and true the bullet is placed (and stays), on the second run through I stopped after the bullet was fed, before seating and removed it....turned it upside down and shook. Bullet did not come out. That's what an "M" style die is for.

Lee is developing a new powder-through expander with a "M" feature! It's way worth it not to have bullets tilting after the feeder and going to the feeder in that state.. Hope Lee's successful with that. ('bout time?)

I haven't had the advance mechanism apart. So I wouldn't know how easy it'd be to make it smoother advancing, but I didn't think it was that bad.....Unique 3/32" from the top of the case didn't spill......so far.

[dverna]

Pulled 100 rounds and here are the results:

Target weight was 4.2 gr. of Clean Shot. Average came in at 4.19 gr.

5 came in at 4.3 gr.
83 came in at 4.2 gr.
11 came in at 4.1q gr.
1 came in at 4.0 gr.

No double charge or squibs in spite have having some stumbles loading them.

I must say I am IMPRESSED with the repeatability of the new Lee measure. Granted, Clean Shot is a fine grain powder that should meter well but still...darn good.

Once I reduce the hiccups, and smooth out operation, it should only get better.

GWS, good to see you posting your progress. That looked very smooth. BTW the end of the index rod moves about 1/8" on my press. I assume that is from the clutch disk I mangled. I see yours is centered during the cycle. I am going to check that my rod is not bent. Nice to see the press operating well!!

I feel silly breaking down those 100 rounds but learned the powder measure is outstanding.

[deces]

Lee is developing a new powder-through expander with a "M" feature! It's way worth it not to have bullets tilting after the feeder and going to the feeder in that state.. Hope Lee's successful with that. ('bout time?)

Where did you come about this nugget of info? I would enjoy reading more about this.

[Three44s]

Pulled 100 rounds and here are the results:

.................................

I must say I am IMPRESSED with the repeatability of the new Lee measure. Granted, Clean Shot is a fine grain powder that should meter well but still...darn good!

..........................

I feel silly breaking down those 100 rounds but learned the powder measure is outstanding.

If I doubt the safety of something I always error on the side of caution when the price of being wrong is high as in this case.

I have been following your thread with great interest, like it!

Three44s

[GWS]

Where did you come about this nugget of info? I would enjoy reading more about this.

THR.org specifically on the following thread post 5. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...esting.913099/

The O.P. LiveLife is in direct communication with Lee......and they are using him as a beta tester....and they are thrilled with his public reviews of the 6000 and the bullet feeder die beta they've supplied him. Look for the new inline bullet feeder die and goodies....and the M expander in January. Read that thread and LiveLife's other thread on the 6000 on that site.

[deces]

Thank you, I enjoyed the thread.

[dverna]

THR.org specifically on the following thread post 5. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...esting.913099/

The O.P. LiveLife is in direct communication with Lee......and they are using him as a beta tester....and they are thrilled with his public reviews of the 6000 and the bullet feeder die beta they've supplied him. Look for the new inline bullet feeder die and goodies....and the M expander in January. Read that thread and LiveLife's other thread on the 6000 on that site.

GWS....we are all Lee 6000 beta testers...LOL

But if this pans out, it will be worth it!!!

[megasupermagnum]

GWS, that is pretty neat. I am going to try a small vibrator on it like I had on my Spolar shotshell reloader. It will be activated on the downstroke for a second or two.

rbuck, never had a Lee 1000 but two fellows I know had them and gave up on them. Both got 550's. The indexing on the 6000 can be "snappy" and other times not. When it is snappy, I suspect powder will be thrown out of a 9mm case. GWS bought his to load 9mm. He will be able to answer your question. I think I can reduce the snappiness of indexing but at this point it is not affecting loading .38's and I have other bugs I am dealing with.

The press feels solid and hopefully the bugs can be resolved. IMHO, a Dillon user will not be impressed with the 6000.

I have spent at least 10 hours dinking around with the 6000 and it is "not there" yet. I have never needed more than two hours to get any flavor Dillon to produce reloads in quantity. It is apparent Lee did almost no testing before putting the press out and we are essentially "beta testers". Lee is stepping up and helping with free parts and making modifications.

Some people do not know any better, and seem willing to accept lesser performance to save money. There are very few negative comments on the Facebook forum even though some of the videos are painful to watch. It is akin to people who have an ill-tempered dog that needs to be put down but are unable to accept reality.

The press has potential. Someone who thinks they can unbox it and reload 500 rounds the first day needs to buy a Dillon or wait until the bugs on the 6000 are worked out.

Just my opinion.

How are you coming along on the press? When Titan got the latest shipment of the 6 pack in I bought one. I'm not sure what updates they have done on the design in the last few months, but I'm quite happy with mine. I unboxed it yesterday, but didn't have much time to do anything except look at it and read the directions. Today I set it up, took about an hour which included drilling one of my plates for my quick mount bench setup. I was pleasantly surprised to find almost no issues first try on about 75 rounds. The only real issue I had was the case feeder needed some fine tuning on the height. With a penny's thickness gap above the case as I always did on my APP and Pro 1000, I found it would often cause cases to move too far, and some even fell off the slide. I think the problem is a casting mark right were the case hits which I might file off later. I found by reducing the gap to almost nothing it totally fixed it. This was with 327 federal cases, which are rather tall and skinny. The primer system has been flawless, knock on wood. It runs perfect right down to the last 3 or 4 primers in the chute, just as the instructions state. The monumental upgrade for priming on this press in my opinion is the handle and linkage. The handle and linkage on the 6 pack is rock solid. You get a pretty good feel for seating that primer. Indexing has been fine on mine, but I do find that it can jam if you push the case retainers in too far as can happen if one is in front of a cut out in the shell plate. So far mine indexes smooth as silk. All smiles so far.

Tonight or tomorrow I'm going to do the first nonstop 500ish round run of 327 federal. We will see how it really does. After that I'll be running about 500 rounds of 223 Remington, so we will see how it does with swaged primer pockets and taller cases. That won't be for at least 2 weeks though.

[Kenstone]

@megasupermagnum
Thanks for posting.
.