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Thread: Lee 6000 .38 Spl - The Journey Starts

  1. #21
    Boolit Master deces's Avatar
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    Is the powder being slung out of the cases in their rotation around the press?
    These men and their hypnotized followers call this a new order. It is not new. It is not order.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master deces's Avatar
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    I had similar pains years ago when I got a Hornady Pro-Jector, especially with priming. The primer adjustment sequence was non-obvious, non-intuitive and downright difficult, and it took forever to get it feeding correctly. Once I mastered that, and just the right rhythm and correct "flick" of the handle at just the right moment to eject a loaded round, it/we became consistently productive. Any deviation, and I was pulling off half-loaded rounds and cleaning up powder. One thing that kept me productive was just to leave those aside and keep going with remaining cases and primers in the feeder, then do them singly later at the end of the batch.
    I will never buy from cornady again because of their service I got while calling in about the primer system on a LnL-AP & a stuck case I paid to have removed from a die.
    It turns out that after a short time I got the LnL-AP the revised their priming system where the cam was made top pop out of place rather than bending because of a couple grains of powder migrated to the priming station.
    These men and their hypnotized followers call this a new order. It is not new. It is not order.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by deces View Post
    I will never buy from cornady again because of their service I got while calling in about the primer system on a LnL-AP & a stuck case I paid to have removed from a die.
    It turns out that after a short time I got the LnL-AP the revised their priming system where the cam was made top pop out of place rather than bending because of a couple grains of powder migrated to the priming station.
    Hornady service has been generally good, but sometimes hit-or-miss for me. They made me a sizing die for free just because I complained about the final dimensions. I was told they would update the prints (444 Marlin), not sure if that ever happened. Then other times I've called and it's like I'm wasting everyone's time. Same with Lyman, and Lee you're obviously wasting their time (well, it's been a while, maybe better now).

    But in all cases, with some patience, persistence and charm, I've managed to get what I need from all of them.
    I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
    My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
    The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
    How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
    Do you trust your casting thermometer?
    A few musings.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Just loaded 50 rounds. It took over an hour.

    Primer stem stuck again. If a primer does not seat and a fine powder is dumped it will jam the primer stem. Happened twice. Also wound up kinking the primer shuttle return spring on one jam. Inserted a piece of #14 insulated wire to get the spring working again.

    I will attempt to return it. If I cannot return it, I will list it for sale and one of you "lucky" guys will get the latest and greatest from Lee!!!
    Sorry to read about your continuing problems with priming on the 6000.
    Last edited by Kenstone; 12-02-2022 at 05:02 PM.
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  5. #25
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    Sorry, I'm going to pile on a bit. Lee's priming system sucks and has for years. The only change that I see that they have done to improve it is to change the shape of the reservoir from round to triangular and still rely on a two piece plastic trough to present the primers into the station. If they ever get a good priming system, they would be hard to beat. I like a lot of Lee stuff I really do, but I do not see myself ever owning one of their progressive presses again.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master deces's Avatar
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    I am assuming this is the same experience that the OP is having with the priming.
    As someone stated before, I think graphite would be best applied here.
    These men and their hypnotized followers call this a new order. It is not new. It is not order.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finster101 View Post
    Sorry, I'm going to pile on a bit. Lee's priming system sucks and has for years. The only change that I see that they have done to improve it is to change the shape of the reservoir from round to triangular and still rely on a two piece plastic trough to present the primers into the station. If they ever get a good priming system, they would be hard to beat. I like a lot of Lee stuff I really do, but I do not see myself ever owning one of their progressive presses again.
    Wow, OK
    That tray changed from round about 10 YEARS ago...
    Lee has introduced 3 or 4 presses in that 10 years too.

    The priming system on this 6000 is a completely NEW design.
    Yes, there is still a trough but it's wider and the primers are staggered.
    Primers can now be seen in the primer slide for a visual check, not buried in a trough UNDER the shell plate.

    Primer pin sticking is a common problem in every brand of progressive press and is due to powder spillage and primer smooge contamination, we have all experienced it.
    Well, maybe not you though...
    And that powder spillage is due to operators continuing on when there is no primer present in the case.
    jmo,
    .
    Last edited by Kenstone; 11-23-2022 at 07:40 PM.
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Never mind
    Nothing to see here.
    Last edited by Kenstone; 12-02-2022 at 05:03 PM.
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenstone View Post
    If the primer slide starts to pull out before the priming pin has cleared the bottom of the slide, the slider end could be holding the side of the pin, not allowing it to drop down.
    I think a variation in the operating spring length could cause this timing difference. especially a spring that has been kinked!!
    just a thought,


    If I had this press with this problem I'd be looking into a heavier spring for the priming pin.
    just me though,
    .

    Once debris gets in the hole the primer stem slides in, the primer stem locks up. IMO, the fit of the primer stem and hole is too loose. Maybe loose manufacturing tolerances. If the clearance was .001”, it is possible stuff would not get lodged.

    It locks up so tight, I needed to beat the pin out. A stronger spring is not going to work.

    Edit to add:

    Say the tolerance on the hole is .250 +/-.002 and tolerance on pin is .245+/-.002

    If the unit ships with a .248 hole and .247 pin, there may be no place for debris to go.

    But what if the unit ships with a .252 hole and .243 pin? Now we have a .009 gap for stuff to lodge in.

    Just speculating.
    Last edited by dverna; 11-23-2022 at 09:11 PM.
    Don Verna


  10. #30
    Boolit Master deces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Once debris gets in the hole the primer stem slides in, the primer stem locks up. IMO, the fit of the primer stem and hole is too loose. Maybe loose manufacturing tolerances. If the clearance was .001”, it is possible stuff would not get lodged.

    It locks up so tight, I needed to beat the pin out. A stronger spring is not going to work.

    Edit to add:

    Say the tolerance on the hole is .250 +/-.002 and tolerance on pin is .245+/-.002

    If the unit ships with a .248 hole and .247 pin, there may be no place for debris to go.

    But what if the unit ships with a .252 hole and .243 pin? Now we have a .009 gap for stuff to lodge in.

    Just speculating.
    Can you parkerize? The magnesium phosphate will build up that difference on the seating stem.
    These men and their hypnotized followers call this a new order. It is not new. It is not order.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Look for a quote of this post to view it.
    otherwise, never mind.
    Last edited by Kenstone; 12-02-2022 at 05:05 PM.
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Kenstone,

    If I need to wet tumble, the press is a failure for how I reload. Might be perfect for others.

    If I need to deprime before loading, the press is a failure for how I reload. Might be perfect for others.

    If I need to prime off the press, the press is a failure for how I reload. Might be perfect for others.

    I already stated what is happening. I am using fine grained powder. If a case does not get a primer seated the powder drops onto the primer stem and jams it up. You may call that operator error, I call it an unreliable primer system. We can agree to disagree. I am used to stuff that works most of time and is easy to fix when it screws up.



    Just so others understand.
    Once the primer stem hangs up, you must remove the shell plate and disassemble the shell plate carrier from the bottom cover. This is not an easy and painless process. The primer shuttle, case feeder and case shuttle have to be removed. The index ball is not contained and keeps falling off the spring. (BTW I used heavy grease to help keep it from falling off.) Then you need to get the priming stem positioned just right as it flops around while bringing the shell carrier and cover together and trapping the index ball. I did not time it, but estimate it takes 15 minutes from start to finish. Oh, and those pesky little springs to actuate the primer and case feeders are a lot of fun to reattach.

    One piece of advice. When starting out, do not use the case feeder or case shuttle. Manually place the cases into the shell holder. Fewer things to deal with when you need to take things apart. You will not lose any "productivity"...LOL. If you can get the primer system to work, adding case feeding is not as challenging.

    Like I mentioned earlier, if you have a coarser powder start with that. I have 30 lbs of Clean Shot so it needs to work, but it will jam the primer stem with one boo-boo.

    IMO the primer stem design is a fatal flaw. It is not a matter of if it will hang up but when. Maybe I got a lemon, or maybe it is me. YMMV
    Don Verna


  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Kenstone,

    If I need to wet tumble, the press is a failure for how I reload. Might be perfect for others.

    If I need to deprime before loading, the press is a failure for how I reload. Might be perfect for others.

    If I need to prime off the press, the press is a failure for how I reload. Might be perfect for others.

    I already stated what is happening. I am using fine grained powder. If a case does not get a primer seated the powder drops onto the primer stem and jams it up. You may call that operator error, I call it an unreliable primer system. We can agree to disagree. I am used to stuff that works most of time and is easy to fix when it screws up.



    Just so others understand.
    Once the primer stem hangs up, you must remove the shell plate and disassemble the shell plate carrier from the bottom cover. This is not an easy and painless process. The primer shuttle, case feeder and case shuttle have to be removed. The index ball is not contained and keeps falling off the spring. (BTW I used heavy grease to help keep it from falling off.) Then you need to get the priming stem positioned just right as it flops around while bringing the shell carrier and cover together and trapping the index ball. I did not time it, but estimate it takes 15 minutes from start to finish. Oh, and those pesky little springs to actuate the primer and case feeders are a lot of fun to reattach.

    One piece of advice. When starting out, do not use the case feeder or case shuttle. Manually place the cases into the shell holder. Fewer things to deal with when you need to take things apart. You will not lose any "productivity"...LOL. If you can get the primer system to work, adding case feeding is not as challenging.

    Like I mentioned earlier, if you have a coarser powder start with that. I have 30 lbs of Clean Shot so it needs to work, but it will jam the primer stem with one boo-boo.

    IMO the primer stem design is a fatal flaw. It is not a matter of if it will hang up but when. Maybe I got a lemon, or maybe it is me. YMMV
    OK, thanks for the response and explanation of your position.
    Good luck going forward,

    .
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  14. #34
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Spent some time on the Six Pack forum on Facebook today.

    Looks like my issues are not unique. Lee has modified the primer shuttle, the bottom cover plate and the primer stem/spring. Here is a picture of the primer stem and cover plate:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The new one is on the right. It has a triangle cut out for debris to exit. Both the stem and spring are different. Some discussion about the new ones being beveled.

    There are a few videos showing the press operating done by David Sherman the Admin. They are the first ones you see. Painful to watch if you run a Dillon.

    Some chatter on the forum about a 100 round challenge. REALY? That tells a lot about how this press is starting out of the gate.

    There is another video by Nicholas Evanczik showing how to remove the lower cover plate. It will explain why it takes so long and why Lee does not offer a LP stem. If you had to change primer stems no one would buy this press. It takes almost nine minutes and he did not take off the case feeder and reinstall it. BTW, I was doing it incorrectly. I did not remove the tool head or take the linkages off. I managed to get it apart and weave it through the support rods.

    The good news is Lee is trying to find fixes and seems to be responsive. I wish I had waited another 6-12 months but hindsight is 20/20. I did not invest $350 to bash Lee; but they have proven once again they do little testing. Maybe their employees are being pushed too hard to bring a product to market. Maybe the bean counters and sales department are not listening to the techies developing the press.

    Whatever the reason, Lee should have learned by now.
    Last edited by dverna; 11-24-2022 at 03:51 PM.
    Don Verna


  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Off to search Facebook for that Six Pack Forum and joining it.
    Last edited by Kenstone; 12-02-2022 at 05:06 PM.
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  16. #36
    Boolit Grand Master
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    GWS, glad to hear your press is working well. Please keep us posted so folks get a fair and balanced report.

    Did you add graphite before running the press, or have you not had a primer failure yet?

    BTW, on the 550 a missed primer does not cause powder to drop onto the primer seater. That makes it more forgiving. The 1050 has the same advantage, with priming done on a separate station.

    One thing I am thinking about is moving the powder drop on the 6000 to station 3. That way if there is no primer, powder does not fall directly on the primer punch. Are you charging powder on station 2 or 3? This “wastes” a station but seems like a small price to pay for an improvement in reliability.

    I have the press boxed up and ready to return but may give that try this weekend.
    Don Verna


  17. #37
    Boolit Master deces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Spent some time on the Six Pack forum on Facebook today.

    Looks like my issues are not unique. Lee has modified the primer shuttle, the bottom cover plate and the primer stem/spring. Here is a picture of the primer stem and cover plate:
    If you contact lee, I am sure they will be happy to swap out the old priming rod & bottom plate for the new ones.
    I have a question for you about the indexing rod. when installed in the press, does it rest on the top of the steel base plate or does it kind of float?
    These men and their hypnotized followers call this a new order. It is not new. It is not order.

  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by deces View Post
    If you contact lee, I am sure they will be happy to swap out the old priming rod & bottom plate for the new ones.
    I have a question for you about the indexing rod. when installed in the press, does it rest on the top of the steel base plate or does it kind of float?
    The indexing rod rests on the base of the press.
    Don Verna


  19. #39
    Boolit Master deces's Avatar
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    Thank, I have been wondering about this for a while. When I look at my ABLP, the indexing rod sits the same on the press, but in the steel base there is a cut just below the rod. It's like at some point in time Lee wanted the indexing rod to rest inside of the steel base. The problem is though, it's 180* off
    These men and their hypnotized followers call this a new order. It is not new. It is not order.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    GWS, glad to hear your press is working well. Please keep us posted so folks get a fair and balanced report.

    Did you add graphite before running the press, or have you not had a primer failure yet?

    BTW, on the 550 a missed primer does not cause powder to drop onto the primer seater. That makes it more forgiving. The 1050 has the same advantage, with priming done on a separate station.

    One thing I am thinking about is moving the powder drop on the 6000 to station 3. That way if there is no primer, powder does not fall directly on the primer punch. Are you charging powder on station 2 or 3? This “wastes” a station but seems like a small price to pay for an improvement in reliability.

    I have the press boxed up and ready to return but may give that try this weekend.
    Don-- I erased my post as premature, because I wanted to investigate what's going on with yours. Where I burnished graphite was in the primer chute, for about ten minutes. I took the chute off the press and discovered it's sort of "hinged" so it opens enough to get a Q-tip inside. So with fine graphite I made a little pile in a medicine bottle cap and dipped the Q-tip and burnished repeatedly. That made it slick but still not slick enough to feed the last three since they are no longer on a slope. Lee probably should have kept the grade slope close to the end....

    Is that where and why you failed to prime? Or was it something else. I haven't loaded cases yet, but I have tested with primers and powder, a bunch of times trying to find problems. So far the Lee case feed system works well.....the plate advances well.....the primers feed excepting the last three (not enough stack weight behind the last three to push them into the shuttle) ..... the priming rod has plenty of clearance and doesn't hang up on the plate.....but I can see what would happen if it was lubed with grease or oil that spilled powder could stick to.....which is why I suggested graphiting the rod and rod hole.

    I do indeed prime and charge in station two....using an "M" powder-thru expander inside my RCBS Uniflow Powder measure. So I see there's a problem if you don't get primed....but I haven't had a problem priming excepting the last three in a stack. I don't have any binding on the priming rod.....but I'm going to burnish graphite onto the rod if I experience what you are. Nothing sticks to graphite.

    I'm also working on a 3D printed part that I hope will solve the last three primer problem.....if I succeed, and I think I will, I'll send you one if you keep your press.....But don't keep it based on only that, because it's got to work for you.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check