Reloading 45-70

[Mint]

Accurate states that you WILL get unburned kernels with 5744. It will not effect accuracy.

It will dent the next case unless you lower the barrel and blow them out. Found that out on a 50-70 Trapdoor.

Jumping to a 45-70 is not that difficult. My first rifle caliber was .308 with a whack-a-mole. Next was the 50-70 using "normal" dies and press.

And it sounds like you do zero lubing on the pistol calibers. Try a LITTLE Imperial sizing wax on every 10 case, I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the results.

And long range is fun. We've got 300 yards at my club and big slow slugs are a hoot.

Slower the better. Used to load 4.4 grains of Clays under a 330 grain boolit in 45-70. 200 yards you were aiming about 12 feet above the dinger to ring it. Never stuck one in the barrel, but I checked just to make sure between every shot.

There was an article on, I think, Castpics with whisper loads for .223, 30-30, 30-06, 45-70. Worth the time to print off a copy. Think the info may have migrated here.

Interesting about the unburned... that is somewhat of a large annoyance for plinking to have to be blowing down the barrel every shot...

Thanks for the sizing wax, I actually bought some of that and it's sitting here so I'll try taht. Are you saying you do that instead of the full case lubing? In other words I don't lube the cases at all except the wax every 10?

[Mint]

Mint, Bird is on target with boolit diameter. The Miroku made 1886's tend to have tight chambers and barrels. Both of my 1886 Brownings slugged at .457". The chamber on the 1886 rifle is tight enough that a round loaded with a .459" boolit will not drop into the chamber all the way under it's own weight and a slight resistance is felt pushing them in by hand. I size .458" for the 1886, my Sharps likes .459" seated out far enough to contact the lands when chambered. You mentioned having 2400, 22-24 grains under a 400 grain boolit pretty much duplicates the original 45-70-405 service load. To shoot long range you will need a vernier tang sight with enough vertical adjustment. A ballistic calculator such as JBM calculations will get you your trajectory and wind drift for long range so you can get a base sight setting. You need to know your boolits weight, BC and muzzle velocity. Another factor at long range is spin drift. A 45-70 with a 1 in 20 RH twist rifling can have 2.5-4 MOA drift to the right at 800-1000 yards. The Buffington sights on Trapdoors had compensation for this built in.

So are you saying the .459 is too tight for the Miroku? I wasnt sure if "not dropping in all the way" is a problem or not. Like if you shoot those anyway does that mean increased leading or something?

Also how are you actually testing that, do you just open the lever, place the loaded round in with the gun angled down and see if the round seats 100% by gravity?

[mehavey]

FWIW: My Miroku 1886 eats 459s/Starline brass just fine.

[rmcc]

I have 3 Trapdoors and 2 Marlin 1895s. My go to powders are IMR 4198 and IMR 3031. You get a decent loading density for consistent ignition. My 2 cents worth is to stay in the Trapdoor range of velocities. I have loaded up hunting loads for the Marlins and the only difference I could tell was the amount of punishment I was taking, the animals were just as dead!! It is a great cartridge, one of the reasons it has been around since 1873. As stated above, the less you work the brass, the longer it will last. Enjoy your reloading!! These guys here are the absolute BEST for advice!! I have been reloading since 1982 and I learn something from these guys everytime I am on here.

rmcc

[15meter]

Interesting about the unburned... that is somewhat of a large annoyance for plinking to have to be blowing down the barrel every shot...

Thanks for the sizing wax, I actually bought some of that and it's sitting here so I'll try taht. Are you saying you do that instead of the full case lubing? In other words I don't lube the cases at all except the wax every 10?

This is for straight walled pistol cases being sized in carbide dies. The traditional "no lube necessary with carbide pistol dies" is true. But a little help on lubricity can make things go in and out a smidge easier.

Lube rifle cases each and every one.

Had a buddy who got in a rush because he waited until the last minute to load for an Cape Buffalo hunt and stuck a 450 N.E. That was an interesting 10:00 pm phone call. He was in total panic, had never stuck a case before and ruined TWO shell holders trying to get the case out. He had no idea how to deal with it. He thought either the die went back to RCBS or he had to get a new die. Two days before he left for Africa. 11:00 he's in my shed and I showed him how to remove a stuck case and we discovered that the 450 N.E. and the 50-70 use the same shellholder. And I had a pair for my Trapdoor.

He was a pretty happy camper. He has seen the light on lubing rifle cases. And not waiting until the last minute.

He going back for another Cape Buffalo in May, I've already loaded up 40 rounds of 450-400 N.E. with Woodleigh's and bushels of RL-15 plus a bunch of cast boolits loads to practice manipulating and sighting the rifle.

You load those, you watch the powder in the reservoir drop dramatically with every throw.


And just realized this is post 1957, my favorite number, my sail number on the first ice boat that I owned, bought in 1980. Sailed up to, I think 6 years ago, when I ripped the front 3 feet off the nose of the hull. Good times. That sail is now on it's replacement boat. And I should be gluing up a new runner plank for that boat instead of kibitzing here or I'm going to rip another boat in half.

Everybody buys epoxy by the gallon right?

[Sgt H]

Mint, the .459" is not too tight. The resistance is very slight, when cycled through the magazine it is not enough to notice. I only noticed it loading singe rounds at the range. There is no leading and have had no issues firing those rounds. If you have a chamber neck that is so tight the case cannot expand and release the bullet when the powder ignites then you have potential grenade. An easy way to check is to insert a bullet into a fired case. If the bullet will slip into the fired case you are fine.

[Soundguy]

45-70 is easy to reload for as rifle cartridges go. it's like a big straight walled pistol cartridge.

FYI.. CH4D used to make a TiN 45-70 size die...

[Mint]

Mint, the .459" is not too tight. The resistance is very slight, when cycled through the magazine it is not enough to notice. I only noticed it loading singe rounds at the range. There is no leading and have had no issues firing those rounds. If you have a chamber neck that is so tight the case cannot expand and release the bullet when the powder ignites then you have potential grenade. An easy way to check is to insert a bullet into a fired case. If the bullet will slip into the fired case you are fine.

Thanks I definitely will try that out.