Full Wadcutter in 32 H&R/327 Fed Mag

[Green Frog]

There is a thread going on for full power wadcutters, but it seems to attract interest only for the 38/357 crowd, so I thought I’d start fresh with this thread. As the title says, I’m interested in 32 cal wadcutters. Loads for 32 S&W L are well established and my friend Dale53 gave me a good start on 32 H&R (but more suggestions would be welcome!) However, WC loads for the 327, both target level and full snort, seem to be fairly thinly represented.

Does anyone have any favorite recipes for full wadcutter bullets loaded, mild or hot, in the 327? I’m interested in hearing about loads you’ve actually tried and like, not something your cousin’s brother-in-law’s father’s friend read about. I’ve been fortunate to acquire a goodly supply of new Starline 327 brass and am working on the assumption that the shorter bullet jump from a longer case to forcing cone may give me more accuracy.

Thanks in advance for all shared experiences.
Froggie

[waco]

What bullet are you using?

[waco]

Here is some info from Lyman’s cast bullet handbook 4th edition.

[Greg S]

Been contemplating getting a 98 gr SWC mold or a HBWC mold from Slovainia.

[Green Frog]

I've got the MP HBWC, but I'm worried about going full snort with those bullets for fear of blowing skirts. I've got the group buy Lee TL wadcutter and the Lyman 313445 (and maybe another 32 wadcutter mould) and I think I can make up something that will work. Right now I just want to find a good starting point for the charge. I'd like to use 231/HP38 for the light target load and perhaps some Accurate #9 for the ground pounders.

Froggie

[waco]

I have a 6.5" Ruger Bisley Single Six and my only mold to date is an Arsenal copy of the RCBS 98gr SWC.
I load it powder coated and sized to .3135" in Starline 32 H&R Mag brass with CCI SPP over 3.5gr of Universal for around 800fps.

[rintinglen]

Waco, the problem with that 4th edition info is that it is not "Full snort." It is loaded to 32 S&W Long levels, not even 32 H&R. And it is for the 32 H&R

The only Wadcutter load that I tried in the 327 was the RCBS boolit over 3.0 grains of WW 231 in starline cases. (Which was sort of a plus P load, but definitely not full on 327.) I need to cast up some more, but I don't know where that mold got to. The Lyman 4th edition, p. 243, has loads that reach up in the 30,000 psi range, but that still falls way short of the RCBS 32-98 SWC over 13.2 grains of 296 at 40,000+ psi.

[Thin Man]

Green Frog, I have 11 molds in the .313-.316 diameter for the "32" family of revolvers. Two of these are WC design: Lyman 313492 in the unusual 85 grain weight and a NEI mold branded 105-313-WC. Both of these molds make boolits that give serviceable groups but nothing to really brag about, except for the 85 grain 313492. I'm having a bunch of fun working up loads for 32 acp with this one and getting perfect feeding to boot. As for tight groups at full power the winning mold is the Saeco 325, followed by either the RCBS 313-95-SWC or the Ideal 32 NP (New Police) in a tong tool. For the wide WC meplat you are searching to find you should look at the Saeco 325. It has been a delight in all my 32's.

[Green Frog]

I’ve got the Lee TL WC mould and the MP HBWC mould as well as both the Lyman 313445 and 313492, and probably a couple more available I’m still trying to decide whether the ‘445 is a short nose SWC or a WC with a long button nose. There’s no reason any of these should not shoot well. I have done so with 32 S&W L, so I’m sure the bullets will work for 327 if I can find the right charge of the right powder. My problem right now is that my closest reloading friends who do revolvers haven’t “warmed up” to the 327. Plenty of good 32 H&R “magnum wannabe” loads, but they just don’t do 327s.

Rintinglen, I think that 3 gr W231 charge under the RCBS wadcutter might be adaptable to stuff I’ve got (the Lee TL WC or the Lyman 313445 or ‘492 for instance). I just found at least half of an eight pound can of this powder that I’ve had stashed a while, so With my new brass and old primer stash I won’t have to buy anything in these tight supply times. BTW, how much does that RCBS bullet weigh?

Froggie

[MT Gianni]

I have the RCBS 84 gr wc and the Lyman 313492. Both are stable when fired out of a 30-30 contender bbl at 25 yards. Velocity id probably around 1450 fps. I have not shot them other than with 2 gr BE from 32 Long or H&R.

[Mk42gunner]

I’m still trying to decide whether the ‘445 is a short nose SWC or a WC with a long button nose.

Perhaps its a Semi-SWC??? It is an odd looking little rascal.

Getting back to full snort .32 H&R and .327 Fed WC loads, I think you will have to become close friends with a chronograph, involving lots of range trips.

I can guess that the .32 H&R will top most book velocities by 50% or so, the .327 may double them. I have no idea as to the accuracy potential of the tiny projectiles. I have not had good luck with the 313445, but I never pushed it very hard even when I shot it through my 7.62x39 rifle.

Robert

[rintinglen]

Mine usually weigh right at 100 grains, but with some soft, range lead they might go a smidge higher.

[P Flados]

I have a custom 98 gr NLG. It is a big meplat TC that is not far from a wadcutter. My favorite 327 load for it right now is a near full power load with Heavy Pistol powder. However, it also shot good with moderate charges of Unique.

It sounds like you want to run a round with a good portion of the bullet exposed to minimize jump. This is how I have loaded my 98 NLG.

I was not really able to figure out what kind of power level you are interested in, and I am unsure if you want it tailored for a specific gun.

I will make some wild guesses and run you a Quickload table with your 231. I will guess at 0.250" for seating depth and will pick 5.8" for barrel (this is breech to muzzle, so it includes a 4.2" barrel and 1.6" cylinder). I will post the output "as is" where typically there will be something like 50 fps of loss for the cylinder gap.

Cartridge          : .327 Federal Magnum
Bullet             : .312,  98, NLG TC
Seating Depth      : .250 inch 
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.433 inch = 36.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 5.8 inch = 147.3 mm
Powder             : Winchester 231

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-41.7   34     2.80    832     151    9625   2446     97.5    0.951
-37.5   37     3.00    876     167   10889   2626     98.7    0.894
-33.3   39     3.20    919     184   12241   2794     99.5    0.843
-29.2   42     3.40    960     201   13684   2948     99.9    0.797
-25.0   44     3.60   1000     218   15218   3088    100.0    0.756
-20.8   47     3.80   1038     235   16845   3224    100.0    0.720
-16.7   49     4.00   1075     252   18566   3360    100.0    0.687
-12.5   52     4.20   1111     269   20383   3494    100.0    0.657
-08.3   54     4.40   1146     286   22300   3628    100.0    0.630
-04.2   57     4.60   1180     303   24317   3761    100.0    0.605
+00.0   59     4.80   1213     320   26438   3893    100.0    0.582
+04.2   61     5.00   1246     338   28665   4025    100.0    0.561
+08.3   64     5.20   1277     355   31002   4155    100.0    0.541
+12.5   66     5.40   1308     372   33453   4285    100.0    0.523
+16.7   69     5.60   1339     390   36020   4413    100.0    0.507
+20.8   71     5.80   1369     408   38709   4540    100.0    0.491

[Green Frog]

Great responses so far… very informative, especially since there is a lot of unexplored territory for this round. Working backwards, the 2 guns I want to reload for are stout. The first is a converted K frame S&W (from a Model 66 donor) that I count to be capable of taking any factory or SAAMI load safely. The second is a real “stud hoss”, the big eight shot single action Ruger built for a short time on their full size Blackhawk. I feel confident shooting anything out if that that could logically be put into a 327 FM case.
One of the beauties of the 327 chambering is it’s ability to also shoot the 32 H&R and the 32 S&W Long with alacrity, but as stated near the beginning of this thread, I can’t help but wonder whether eliminating so much bullet jump might aid accuracy. I have developed a fire breathing load for a heavy bullet… a NOE 125 gr RNFP backed with a generous charge of Accurate 7 or 9. The end of that bullet barely clears the end of the Smith’s chamber, so I know bullet jump is minimal. But, for times when I don’t want the ground to split and the heavens to light up, I wonder whether a full WC with proper charge in a 327 case might be desirable. I’ve been stuck at home a lot recently for several reasons (including a bout with COVID) and have had time to speculate on “sticks and strings and sealing wax…” and looking at these two revolvers and the plethora of bullets I have available for theme my little amphibian brain just had to open up and discuss these things with my forum colleagues.
Realistically I guess I should concentrate on a good target load for a full wadcutter (or something similar like the 313445) in the 85-95 gr range, as well as a midrange load for some of these neat semis in the 105 gr weight range that I’ve got laying around. Then I could standardize and settle on one proven heavy load for the 125 grainer. These three, along with the Federal factory HST load for “social work” should do anything I want to do with a 327, don’t you agree?

Froggie

[P Flados]

I agree. And really, your 231 should do well for both the target load and the 327 midrange loads.

In my 4.2" SP-101, I shot a lot of target loads for the first couple of years I had it. Now I still shoot it regularly, but with fewer rounds and mostly mid range stuff. The target loads I was shooting tended to cause powder residue gumming up the gun such that the cylinder gets stiff to rotate after 1000 rounds or so. That SP-101 is not the easiest gun I have to get the cylinder out for a hot water bath.

I like shooting the gun, but now I have other guns that serve my current needs better with respect to high volume low power target shooting.

[Green Frog]

The cylinder cleaning difficulty is one thing I won’t have to worry about with my Ruger SA or my Smith. Both cylinders come out easily. I’m hoping to develop fairly clean loads also... cleaning guns is not one of my favorite things to do, and in many cases guns suffer more wear and damage from improper cleaning than from excess shooting.

Was the midrange load you were shooting in the SP-101 in 327 FM cases or something shorter? I have read all sorts of warnings about the extra cleaning you have to do after shooting shorter cased cartridges in longer chambers. I have revolvers in 32 S&W Long and H&R as well as the 327s and I’m trying to decide whether it’s. Worth the extra time and effort to load separate light loads for each length, then separate mid range loads as well. The initial question implied in this thread regarding the effect of long bullet jump in the longest chambers is at the heart of this... do I gain anything from long case wadcutters or should I just adjust the Dillon 550 for S&W L wadcutters and load a bajillion of them for all the guns regardless of chambering? Likewise, is a long length midrange load going to be significantly better in all around performance than a mid length version of the same thing?

I may be overthinking this. Maybe I could develop just three great reloads and do them in bulk, a highly accurate wadcutter target load in S&W Long length, two thirds as many mid range medium to high performance loads in H&R cases, and just one third as many high performance loads in 327 length. That way, I never could put too powerful a round in the smaller, shorter chambers and as ammo power went up, likewise the gun strength would be increased as well. Do I “need” to match case to chamber for acceptably good accuracy and performance? Decisions, decisions!

Froggie

[P Flados]

I shoot nothing but 327 cases in the SP-101. Partially because I only had a handful of 32 long cases and it did not seem to shoot as good with the shorter cases.

For you, I would first see if either the H&R or 327 cases shoot better with a longer target load in the 327 guns. These loads will have a lot of free space above the powder. For best accuracy in these guns you probably also need to develop a routine that puts the powder in the same location (forward or rearward) with every shot. I tilt muzzle up before bringing the sight on the target.

After determining if you can tell any difference in accuracy, you choice will be more informed.

For mid range loads, I like the idea of using 327 cases for the 327 guns. It lets you use a powder on the fast side and load up and down as needed until you find the sweet spot for you guns without worrying about your ammo being safe in a 32 H&R. Going with the faster powder will use less powder, burn cleaner and produce less muzzle blast than a slow powder.

For serious loads to be used in a 32 H&R, you want to use a more optimum powder (AA#7, AA#9, Power Pistol) to get about the same performance available from a mid range 327 with fast powder.

[RJM52]

Hey Froggie...sorry to hear you are still doing battle with COVID... We weren't able to get together two years ago when I was down your way and it just keeps keeping on...

CWlongshot gave me some PC 95 grain WCs to try out and I loaded them up but for the first time ever I didn't record the load. I'm pretty sure it was W231 powder and they shoot great out of my converted 53 but have not run them over a chrono...

And like you I'm down to two revolvers in .327. The Jack Huntington converted Model 53 6" and a 4.25" Freedom Arms 97. Also had the same gun with a 6.5" barrel but just didn't like the balance. For a longer barrel hunting .327 CW punched out a .32 H&R Magnum 12" octagon TCA Contender barrel for me. It runs the 85 grain Hornady XTP at 2100 fps.

Your MP HBWC mold...didn't it come with pins to make it a solid? My .41 mold from MP does....

If you are looking for some heavies for the S&W, try the Accurate 31-120S and 31-135S. They both have short noses. The 135s run 1472 fps from the 6" 53 with H110 powder. Accurate #9 will run the 120s in the same area. If you want to try some send me a pm...

Hope you are feeling up to speed soon...Bob

[Green Frog]

The battle with COVID is finally over, Bob. I’ve just gotten a clean bill on that and the other health issue that’s been in the background for so long. Now if I could just find a cure for old age…

I think you’re right about the pins for my MP mould in HBWC. To be honest, I have yet to cast the first bullet out of it as I’ve gotten a bunch of (now discontinued) HBWC swaged bullets from Hornady and a good sized sample of the Lee tumble lube design (for which I also got the 6 cavity mould from Dale53). Add those to the Lyman 313445 and ‘492 designs I’ve got cast up, and I don’t know when I’ll get around to the MP mould.

Back when I first got into the 327 pursuit I joined a group buy for a NOE mould that was an adaptation of the classic Ideal 3118, but in the adaptation it got a little bigger (.314”) and about 10 gr heavier. Mine casts beautiful 125 gr RNFP bullets “just like shelling corn”. I can’t imagine looking for one of the one they’ve designed more recently that are even heavier.

I’m enjoying a bit of an embarrassment of riches in the world of 32s these days. While I have several in my trading stock, I now have in my “keeper” collection the early post War 32 HE snub (old I frame) and my recreated Model 16-3 in 32 S&W L, a Ruger Buckeye Special Blackhawk and S&W 631 in 32 H&R, and a Blackhawk Eight Shooter and the famous S&W “Project 616” in 327, so unless it looks like I may live long enough and continue to shoot actively longer than I expect, I should be well equipped for life. The one exception is the possibility of building a long gun in 327… I’ve dreamed of a high wall, a Ruger #3, or maybe a Henry lever gun to go with the handguns, but I fear I’ve waited about 20 years too long.

Hope you’ll swing back this way again sometime. As we say here in the mtns of VA, “I’ll leave the latch string out for you.”

Froggie

[RJM52]

Froggie...

"Hope you’ll swing back this way again sometime. As we say here in the mtns of VA, “I’ll leave the latch string out for you.”

It may happen...have a friend who moved to SC and will be visiting with him...you are "on the way"....

"I’m enjoying a bit of an embarrassment of riches in the world of 32s these days."...I did the opposite...had about 10 .32s and .327s and am down to the two revolvers and the TC barrel...don't even have any .32 brass in the house other than .327s...sold or gave the rest away to friends.

"I’ve dreamed of a high wall, a Ruger #3, or maybe a Henry lever gun to go with the handguns." I bought a #3 in .22 Hornet to do just that but it shoots so well as a Hornet .I haven't done it yet. What I really want is a Marlin 1894CL just like the ones they made in .32-20...

"Now if I could just find a cure for old age…" ...there is but you wouldn't like it because you won't be on the green side of the grass...

Molds...you sound like you are "over-molded"...like I am with .41s....causes nothing but confusion.

Take care and C U soon....

Bob