Originally Posted by lancem
Your mother did not raise a fool. Good post.
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Your mother did not raise a fool. Good post.
Don Verna
"I am looking for something to basically bunch paper with at the range and not tear my shoulder up."
With this requirement, the 223 would be the practical choice. Every model of gun is chambered in it and ammo is readily available and relatively affordable. Since your daughter is so young, I think trying to anticipate what would be a hunting rifle for her would be a mistake. Teach her proper gun safety and skills with a 22 rimfire and when she is comfortable, the 223 is a good introduction to a centerfire rifle. Both of these chamberings are accurate enough to build confidence and ammo pricing will give you the most trigger time compared to anything other than an air rifle. Down the road, gifting her with her own personal rifle, rather than a hand-me-down, will give you as much pleasure as it will her.
At what ranges do you paper punch? You mentioned hunting ranges are short.
For anything under 600yd the .223 is a much better choice. The only reason I went to 6mm was the 1000yd targets (mine is 6BR).
If you shoot a lot the downside of the .243 will become apparent. It can be a bit hard on barrels when loaded near max. You could easily shoot out the barrel before your daughter is old enough to use it.
Mistake
Get your daughter a Cricket single shot .22. Sized for her and plenty to teach her to shoot. When she's 8-10 get her a .223. If you want a new rifle get yourself one.
The 6.5 Grendel is a very interesting cartridge. It kills way beyond its numbers, which if you compare, are quite close to real world 6.5x54 MS, which has been killing game big and small for a century. The cartridge is super efficient, kicks even less than a Creedmoor and can be gotten in some decent, inexpensive bolt guns as well as AR uppers with a special magazine. There are now tons of excellent bullets being made for the 264 dia if you can find them.
I agree the 6.5 Grendel is the gun to fit your needs. I'd trade my .223 Mod 77 MKII for one except I don't need a new dia to deal with. Besides I have more guns than I can shoot now.
I was going to get a CZ 527 in Grendel. I have a 223 and a 7.62x39 that perform tremendously. Now CZ has evidentally decided they need to quit making high quality firearms out of wood and steel and make crap like everybody else. I was dumbstruck when I saw what 527's have been going for recently. Their new 600 line has not been doing well. I'll probably end up with a Ruger at some point. I had an AR upper in it that was very accurate, but I just don't need that cartridge in an AR platform. I want it in a trim sporter rifle.
So I am now the proud owner of a savage axis .243 that I bought today. They were out of rails and scope rings for it. I’m going to a diamond beck vortex 4-12x50mm ( currently on my triumph M/L ). It shouldered really good. For a budget gun it will work. I’m going to shoot the crap out of it and if my daughter wants to hunt it will be there.
My club range has a 200 yard bench. So after I get acclimated I’ll be trying out the 200 yard range. I’ll order dyes for it tonight and some factory ammo for it tonight to get some brass.
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I was thinking the Henry youth .22 in the pink cammo
Btw there is no minimum age limit in Michigan to in Michigan you see kids the age of 5-6 yrs old shooting deer. Daughters not ready but hoping
In 4-4 yrs she will be ready to hunt the youth hunt in September
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Last edited by michael.birdsley; 11-17-2022 at 08:36 PM.
Like what was said before, shoot cast in it. 243's are notoriously hard on the throat and rifling. That said, congrats! If your experience is like mine in 223, the Axis is an outstanding platform that punches way way above its weight. The slender grip, high comb, and slick bolt throw are fantastic and its far more accurate than it should be. And the 243 is an inherently accurate round. If you have or can scrounge 308 brass at the range, you prolly can have all the brass you need. Its the parent case and is readily available.
I don’t have any .308 but, in the future that does give me practice in forming a case from another round I have been wanting to try that.
So being hard on the throat and rifling meaning shooting out the barrel ?
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This is what daughter started out with at age 5. Then a shortened Kimber 84 Montana in 243 Win at age 8. She shot 95 gr RCBS FN over full case of Trailboss for a yr or so then I loaded 58 gr Vmax to about 2,600 fps and practiced shooting 2 liter bottles filled with colored water. She shot her first deer at age 10. She only fired reduced loads while practicing, I sighted her gun in with the hunting loads when she was not with me. When she was younger she was above average ht for her age, I think she was about 5' 1" at 10 yrs old, she is 18 now and 5' 6" and the Kimber is a perfect fit. We went deer hunting together every year from age 9 to 15. Young shooters and newer shooters can be sensitive to muzzle blast.
Yes, 'hard on the barrel' means shorter barrel life. Small bore and large case capacity means a lot of burning powder is eroding the throat. 'How short a barrel life' can only be answered by someone who has shot out a barrel. If you reload and reduce loads a bit then barrel life is extended. Shooting cast bullets with reduced loads you might have an indefinite life.
Keep in mind that a bench rest shooter might consider his barrel 'shot out' if it only groups 0.5MOA instead of 0.2MOA.
I've cooked a couple 243 barrels. I very much earned the results firing 58 grain V-max bullets well over max in a Rem 700 and a 700 Varmint in 243 Ackley. My wife and I shot a lot of critters and placed well in some unknown range rifle matches with those loads. Flat and amazingly destructive on AR500 targets - and extremely hard on barrel throats. Shooting unknown distances, we used two loads - the VMax for an extended point blank and 105 AMax's for distances where we had to wind on the knobs. The great thing about the 105 is that it gives nearly identical trajectories to the 300 Win with 208 AMax's. Great for practice without burning a hatful of powder and a more expensive bullet.
If you keep your bullet weights on the heavier side and your velocities under 3400 or so, barrel life should not be a massive problem. Just be aware if you want that speed, barrel life suffers pretty quickly. That Ackely with 58's at 4100 was a laser beam and they actually shot great out to about 600. What they did to prairie dogs........ I knew full well what was going to happen to barrel life and I wasn't disappointed with the performance or the short tube life.
Ok that was my next question. About what bullet weight to shoot. I bought some 100 grain fiocchis on clearance from online for $27.99 ( cheapest I could find ) basically just to sight in and re use the brass. Looks like brass is fairly attainable.
I need to find some small rifle primers. I only have 150 left after loading the .450. I bought these on accident 5 years ago. Luckily I never traded them away or sold them as I have 2 guns now that need them. I may have to make a trade as I have a bunch of large rifle and small pistol.
I mean at this point it’s just a range gun. The club has a 200 yard range that I want to start shooting. Seems like there is a big range of bullets from 55 grain to 105 grain. At this point I’m not trying to put together the fastest fps bullet I can find.
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The 243 normally uses large rifle primers. Peterson did make some small primer pocket 243 brass.
Barrel life is highly dependent on rate of fire. The guys competing with the standard .243 tend to get around 2,000 competition barrel life. For hunters it's normally double that.
Pressure and heat erode the throat. Bullet dwell time is also a factor as is shoulder angle/neck length. The high energy powders are also harder on throats. All things being equal heavier bullets tend to be harder on throats
https://mssblog.com/2016/08/12/factors-in-barrel-life/
https://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...range.3878902/
Last edited by M-Tecs; 11-20-2022 at 10:16 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
How about 25 06? Little recoil, flat shooting, and all that I have shot have been extremely accurate.
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Solved that issue about the primers. My fault for not looking in the manual. I’ll start looking at the lighter bullets than. Thanks for the link
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Don't overlook the lighter bullets some 243s do extremely well with them .
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