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Thread: 9mm brass suited for deep seating heavy boolets

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    9mm brass suited for deep seating heavy boolets

    Good morning to all y’all! Has anyone done some comparisons between the brands of 9mm brass to see which is best for deep seating? Rocky Mountain Reloading just put these on their website a few weeks ago. I was thinking about grabbing some and was wondering what other brands I should compare them to?

    https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/case...rmi-cases-new/

    In their description, they state “These were specifically designed to allow deep seating with a 147 grain or heavier bullet without causing a bulge.”

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I'M trying to figure out what one gains in the 9mm by using projectiles heavier than 147 gr.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
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    Boolit Bub
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    I’m working on a special project. Planning a barrel stub build for a single shot. Efficiency is one benefit.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosh75287 View Post
    I'M trying to figure out what one gains in the 9mm by using projectiles heavier than 147 gr.
    Higher retained energy for subsonic rounds. I haven’t gone heavier than 158gr.

  5. #5
    Yes. Suggest trying Olin-made cases that are not +P.
    I discovered decades ago that Olin brass has the thinnest case walls found in the Western hemisphere. It's also the hardest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry54 View Post
    Has anyone done some comparisons between the brands of 9mm brass to see which is best for deep seating? I was thinking about grabbing some Rocky Mountain Reloading and was wondering what other brands I should compare them to?
    https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/case...rmi-cases-new/
    In their description, they state “These were specifically designed to allow deep seating with a 147 grain or heavier bullet without causing a bulge.”

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Might be trying to solve a problem that does not need to be solved. Does the visible bulge even matter? Heavy 9mm bullets are usually tapered at the base to allow for the case wall thickening.

    I load Ibejihead 9MM 168gr NLG coated rounds sized .358 by the thousands. Those suckers are big, long rounds. I seat them deep using mixed 9mm brass, resized in an undersized "U-die" and have never had a problem despite a very pronounced bulge. I use the same load for USPSA competition and suppressed shooting without a problem. They feed fine and are super accurate in my CZ's and 2011's.

    My two cents....
    Alcohol Inventory Reduction Specialist (Journeyman Level)

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    Boolit Buddy pcmacd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry54 View Post
    Good morning to all y’all! Has anyone done some comparisons between the brands of 9mm brass to see which is best for deep seating? Rocky Mountain Reloading just put these on their website a few weeks ago. I was thinking about grabbing some and was wondering what other brands I should compare them to?

    https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/case...rmi-cases-new/

    In their description, they state “These were specifically designed to allow deep seating with a 147 grain or heavier bullet without causing a bulge.”

    Thanks
    I routinely use unqualified/unsorted range pickup brass to load 147 grain Magma Engineering bullets that I cast.

    They seat pretty deep. I've loaded tens of thousands of these w/o an issue.

    No worries. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. Nichts. Nunca. Keiner. Żaden.
    Kalifornia passes "feel good" legislation hand over fist, legislation that is looking for a problem to solve and affecting only law abiding persons.

    So, after 40 years of that nonsense, that's why I now live in Arizona.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I'd say that RMR brass would work as long as it doesn't look stepped like this inside:
    Blazer
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    Speer
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    If not sure about brass you have, cross-section one and check the wall thickness.
    jmo,
    .
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  9. #9
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    Inside wall thickness at the mid section of the case is about the only thing there is to play around with.

    If a 147 wasn't quite enough for me in 9mm---- I'd be looking for a new gun in .40S&W.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy pcmacd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    Inside wall thickness at the mid section of the case is about the only thing there is to play around with.

    If a 147 wasn't quite enough for me in 9mm---- I'd be looking for a new gun in .40S&W.
    Got five - three Glock 22s and two Glock 23s.
    Kalifornia passes "feel good" legislation hand over fist, legislation that is looking for a problem to solve and affecting only law abiding persons.

    So, after 40 years of that nonsense, that's why I now live in Arizona.

  11. #11
    So….been around for a while but haven’t posted until now….this place is a great resource!

    I do lots of commercial level brass and am always trying to figure out a way around some issue
    that doesn’t involve reinventing the wheel. About a year ago I came across a company that makes
    Cases. These are stainless as opposed to brass…the advantage in these is uniformity. The case wall is made
    from drawn stainless tubing and doesn’t have the taper most cases do. I found this when trying to load
    solid copper projos in 9mm brass and kept getting bulges due to the bullet length. Next I stumbled into a guy
    at the NRA show in Houston who makes a 185 gr 9mm swaged lead bullets in one of these cases….Seismic Ammo.
    I use reamers to fix neck thickness all the time. It would stand to reason you could modify a die so it’s open at the
    top and ream some of the excess thickness to suit your bullet. For rifle cases I use a trim die and a carbide chucking reamer of the appropriate size….the case being reamed has to be held firmly or you’ll spin it…..The carbide reamers are too short to use in the Redding or the RCBS piloted reamers I have and too slow too….

    2ba

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Unless you are able to pressure test to industry standards, deep seating heavy bullets in 9mm is a sure recipe to blow up your gun. Taking ordinary 123-grain FMJ and seating it 0.06" deeper exceeds proof pressure. These warnings have been repeated in Speer handbooks from No. 10 forward and the effect is very well proven and thoroughly documented.

    If you want to load 147-grain subsonic for use with a can, choose a bullet in which seating depth does not exceed factory ball ammo. Maintain standard overall cartridge length not to exceed 1.169". Use a blunt bullet profile to increase the bullet weight. Accurate has several suitable designs.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 12-25-2022 at 10:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Unless you are able to pressure test to industry standards, deep seating heavy bullets in 9mm is a sure recipe to blow up your gun. Taking ordinary 123-grain FMJ and seating it 0.06" deeper exceeds proof pressure. These warnings have been repeated in Speer handbooks from No. 10 forward and the effect is very well proven and thoroughly documented.

    If you want to load 147-grain subsonic for use with a can, choose a bullet in which seating depth does not exceed factory ball ammo. Maintain standard overall cartridge length not to exceed 1.169". Use a blunt bullet profile to increase the bullet weight. Accurate has several suitable designs.
    How does one determine pressure in 9x19 case fired in a pistol. The transducers used with rifles i suspect can not be used. The best one can do is measure velocities, but that is an indirect guesstimate.
    The British used to load their 38/200 cartridges with 200 grain and I think a lighter bullet also that was maybe 178-180 grains or so; I have forgotten. The capacity of a .38 smith and wesson case is close to what a 9x19 is for internal case volume. Maybe a very old lyman manual might have a load for unique for heavy bullet wts as a starting point that one could use in 9x19 case.
    These very slow bullets will likely tumble


    After market 'vintage' 200 grain loads steinelammo.com


    For the relatively weak enfield revolver: below is a load that should not blow up a 9x19. Could use these as a starter loadand fire the first shots remotely with a string.
    In the No. 2 Enfield top breaks 2.5 grs. of Bullseye 2.8 of W231 or 3.5 grs. of Unique with the #358430 is pretty standard. I wouldn't go over 2 grs. of Red Dot or 700-X without checking velocity. If you don't go over 650 f.p.s. you are OK.
    https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/th...200-load-data/

    Lyman 2-Cavity Bullet Mold #358430 38 Special, 357 Magnum (358 Diameter) 195 Grain Round Nose

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Larry Gibson is the right person to ask so far as the strain gages used with the Oehler M43 PBL. If the strain gage is placed in the proper location and a calibration check is done with reference ammo there should be no issues.

    When I was at Ruger and we wanted to run accelerated endurance tests of experimentals we reseated M882 Ball and measured pressures of the shortened ammo using a government test barrel conforming to the NATO STANAG 4010 parameters, equipped with a Kistler conformal transducer. Speer used the SAAMI standard commercial pressure test barrel for validation.
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  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy pcmacd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Unless you are able to pressure test to industry standards, deep seating heavy bullets in 9mm is a sure recipe to blow up your gun. Taking ordinary 123-grain FMJ and seating it 0.06" deeper exceeds proof pressure. These warnings have been repeated in Speer handbooks from No. 10 forward and the effect is very well proven and thoroughly documented.

    If you want to load 147-grain subsonic for use with a can, choose a bullet in which seating depth does not exceed factory ball ammo. Maintain standard overall cartridge length not to exceed 1.169". Use a blunt bullet profile to increase the bullet weight. Accurate has several suitable designs.

    I have ROUTINELY shot Magma Engineering 147 FP (my) cast bullets in range pickup 9mm brass over the last 30 or years using W231, w/o a single mishap nor hiccup. W/O looking at records, I am certain that I maintain a loaded length less than the max for 9mm.

    This puts the bullet base _way down_ into the propellent area. If I am using once fired nickel Federal brass with the cannelure for the 147 grain JHP that brass was originally factory loaded with, my bullet base seats about at that cannelure line.

    I load a tenth or two of a grain down from the max. Magma Engr Blue Lube. Sized likely 0.356". Range salvage with 2% tin and 3.1% antimony added via foundry type. The tin makes the bullets flow well in the mold and they don't tarnish due to the tin, as if that matters?

    My G19 has ~15,000 rounds of these projectiles thru it, and everthing remains hunky dory.

    Every hundert or so rounds I shoot a couple of FMJ thru it to blow out the lead from the barrel.

    And, in fact, the pistol still appears to be brand new.

    I'm just sayin'....

    ...
    Kalifornia passes "feel good" legislation hand over fist, legislation that is looking for a problem to solve and affecting only law abiding persons.

    So, after 40 years of that nonsense, that's why I now live in Arizona.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check