Agree with most everybody. Speed is not a big deal with the .45-70. A slow moving 400ish grain boolit will do it all. Accuracy is the only real concern.
Agree with most everybody. Speed is not a big deal with the .45-70. A slow moving 400ish grain boolit will do it all. Accuracy is the only real concern.
Congratulations on your first success with CB. They just plain work well.
My thoughts on velocity went like this, why continue with shotgun slug velocity when I can finally carry a rifle, albeit straight wall cartridge, when deer hunting? My first die was the Lee 405FN that needed honed out for my .4585" bore. It kills water jugs dead at 100 yards with 14 grains of Unique, good cheap fun but that is not what I purchased this rifle for.
When the Accurate mold arrived I started with the high end loads of up to, maybe even exceeding 2,000fps. Brutal with the 1895 CB plastic butt plate, but I was game to grit my teeth and sight them in (multiple powders and ladder loads). Granted, this was with open sights (Skinner Peep) but I took painstaking (emphasis on pain) time to obtain best groups the loads could produce off sandbags at 100 yards. I wasn't pleased with the results on paper.
Then I read where 2400 in the 45/70 can be used which caught my eye as I had two old cans of Hercules 2400 on the shelf. At a pared down 1,620 fps the 5 shot groups were much tighter, plus my shoulder appreciated the reduced pounding it had been receiving. The first deer with this rifle and load I shot just slumped down on the spot. (Some do, some don't) That was 7 or 8 years ago. Running low on the H2400 since then has caused me to use the Hodgdon 4227 acquired last Fall. The best load with that powder is at 1,700 FPS. It swatted a plump year and a half buck last season at 100 yards with satisfying aplomb. He toppled right over without a twitch with both scapula taken out. The impact was almost as loud as the report. Didn't have bloodshot meat, either.
Would the Unique load and the Lee 405FN kill deer well? Has for many others, but the effects of it on 100 yard water jugs compared to the Accurate 405 WFN is anemic, in my humble opinion. The Accurate WFN doesn't destroy globs of meat yet hits will the authority I was/am looking for, even out further in range. I shoot plenty of Blackpowder rifles and enjoy them immensely, but for this rifle I wanted to wring out more than just BP velocities to reach out to 150 yards or so and still have ample power. This is what I wanted out of the 45/70. Some folks want more, other are content with less. Ultimately it is up to you to decide what you desire in a load for your intended use and enjoyment. Have fun finding out. I know I've encountered many hours of fond memories using this round and rifle since Ohio opened the rules to allow it for deer.
I shoot Noe 460 396 PB and Magnus .405's at .458 in my Marlin CB with a 26" barrel. I use 5744 , 28g for a easier shooting load and 32g for anything where I feel the need for more speed. The 32g has a thump but is still very manageable unless you plan to shoot 30 or more rounds at a time. Try the 28g , it's plenty fast for deer and is easy on the shoulder.
Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!
Wow, just want to say congratulations and thanks for the thread John. Came to it on recommendation from a member. I'm in the exact same boat. I was looking at Tom's 46-405M but am now checking the 405V out.
I like my existing load, 425 at 1700 fps. Pretty good wallop. My last deer was shot with that load, just behind the shoulder. Strangest thing is it jumped hard then just starting walking around like nothing had happened. I followed it (more like walked up to it) and put it down. Wounds were like laser cut.
Though I loved the accuracy of the load, I'm coming to understand the wisdom of a slower bullet, not such high BHN, personally. I used 50:50 WW : pb with added 95:5 solder to bring tin to 2%, water quenched, but now I think I'm going to try around 1300-1350 fps with air-cooled 40/1 or at most 20/1.
Last edited by huntinlever; 12-01-2022 at 11:01 PM.
-Paul
When I bought my Accurate 405 WFN mold for the Marlin Lever Action it was designated as the C mold. It has C engraved in the mold, as well. But the current 405C is not what I have. It appears I have the 405T (with Gas Check Shank) that is just before the 46-405V in Tom's online catalogue. I think for the velocities you are looking for that flat based design will suit you very well. They cycle in the lever actions just fine. I used mine to miss a big doe three times this evening. Not the boolit's fault. I estimated her distance too short and didn't touch her. She was a might further than the walnut tree I was using to gauge yardage. She hopped away wondering what all the commotion was all about. But when that big wide flat nose does hit you will know it.
Thanks for that background Christopher. To be sure - you're talking about the 405V, not 405M, right? I'd had a bit of concern with the V clearing the GG but it sounds like it shouldn't be an issue - and that meplat is impressive.
-Paul
Hi guys! Sorry, Ive left this thread unattended for a bit. Im glad to see reports of people successfully taking game with the 45-70 and various 400 gr class bullets at speeds from mild to wild. Its also nice to hear accounts of Toms WFN design working will in 1895 rifles.
Ill add that I re-read my loading notes from the day I worked up the load I shot my deer with. According to my chronograph notes, that load is actually closer to 1550fps!
Thabks to everyone who has continued to compile data about the performance of 400 grain cast bullets on medium game with "marlin level" loads. I feel that these are useful loads and many people will eventually benefit from this information.
I my-self use the LEE 347-340 Boolit, PC'd to .459, 45.5 GR 3031 .05GR Dacron filler, out of my CVA hunter. All I can say it kills everything I have pointed it at so far and a bit easier on this old mans shoulder.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |