DuPont IMR 3031 in the 25 lb metal can

[Barry54]

I was given this powder and I’m chewing (crunching) through it. My question is reducing below starting loads with it. I thought I could go through it more quickly in 375 Winchester and 35 Whelen.

My only 375 mold is a Hoch nose pour mold that’s 330 grain. I found data for 38-55 and loaded some up. In a Contender carbine with synthetic stock it wasn’t as fun as I had envisioned. I loaded some of the same bullets with TrailBoss and they were mild. Felt and sounded like 45 Colt. But I still wanna use up the 3031...

Moving on to bigger capacity, l hope the 35 Whelen will be where I can really go through it. I have the Lee six cavity 200 grain flat nose mold. I haven’t even started with this combination because the listed velocity of starting loads seems higher than what seems wise for cast.

There’s instructions in the Lee manual for reducing H4895 loads for cast and I wouldn’t consider 3031 a slow powder and would think it would be fairly safe to go below starting loads with 3031.

Do any of y’all have a mild to weak 3031 35 Whelen load to share??
Thanks in advance!

PS. The gentleman that gave me the powder has passed away and my hunting goal this season is to put venison in the freezer with the 3031 instead of just playing with it. He had a slice of wood in his shop that said “waste not want not”

[JimB..]

That’d be a great can to display! I have a few of the 15lb barrels of Bullseye and it’s taking me years to get through them.

3031 is a great old powder, but folks are moving on. If you do some sleuthing on the internet you’ll find a lot of people use 52gr to 54gr under a 200gr bullet in 35 Whelen, some go to 57gr. I have no idea where the data for these loads originates and I have no first hand experience with them.

[243winxb]

A load of IMR 3031 for the 35 Whelen with the Lee 200 gr gas checked bullet would be around 25 to 30 grs. Edit, 35 grs would be closer to Lyman cast data.

My best guess. I did the math. Maximum load minus 10% for the starting load. Then multiply by 60% for the cast load.

I Have reduced IMR 4198 in 6.5 Creedmoor & IMR 4895 in others. The IMR series doesnt have issues when reduced. But enough powder must be used to get the bullet out the barrel.

[Barry54]

That’d be a great can to display! I have a few of the 15lb barrels of Bullseye and it’s taking me years to get through them.

3031 is a great old powder, but folks are moving on. If you do some sleuthing on the internet you’ll find a lot of people use 52gr to 54gr under a 200gr bullet in 35 Whelen, some go to 57gr. I have no idea where the data for these loads originates and I have no first hand experience with them.

My Lyman manual shows 50 grains as a starting load for 2558 FPS which seems excessive.
I suppose I could start there and work down, but if someone has already traveled that path, I’d appreciate the shortcut.

It is a cool can to display. I’ll put it with my 1lb Hi-Vel #2 can and 2400 cans.

[243winxb]

50 grs x 60% = 30 grs

[JimB..]

Apologies, I missed the cast bullet requirement.
I’d do as @243winxb suggests.
I’d also start at 30 or maybe 35 and work down until happy with performance or the bullet fails to exit the gun.

[Barry54]

Thank you. Post #3 appeared while I was responding. The 50 grain starting load was for a 205 grain cast boolet in the Lyman manual. I like the 60% calculation though. I’ve used charges of 2400 that didn’t take up much room in the case. I pointed the muzzle up before each shot. I wasn’t really comfortable with it.

[Barry54]

35 grains is 60% of the max. Seems like a reasonable point to start, considering I could have tried 50 grains before asking for help here. Glad to hear nobody’s had a bad experience reducing 3031. The only bad experience I’ve had was a light load from the Lee book in 30-30 with N120 powder and a 90 grain xtp. No injuries but it messed up the rimfire firing pin. I’m a lot more cautious after that!

I do have Puff-Lon filler, but I don’t use it often because I don’t like the added variable from the moly lubricant in it.

[243winxb]

Thank you. Post #3 appeared while I was responding. The 50 grain starting load was for a 205 grain cast boolet in the Lyman manual. I like the 60% calculation though. I’ve used charges of 2400 that didn’t take up much room in the case. I pointed the muzzle up before each shot. I wasn’t really comfortable with it.

50 gr cast load of IMR 3031? Stop. Make sure. Do use Lyman cast bullet data??

[243winxb]

After more search, 35 grs seems ok. Using Lyman data is always my first choice, if there is data.

The 60% Hodgdon Youth load data is when using jacketed bullets & H4895 powder.

[Barry54]

Yep. 49th and 47th show a 50 grain start charge for the 204 grain.

Directly above the 195 grain in the photo you posted. Page 326 in the 47th edition.

[243winxb]

I see that now. WOW. 50 as start. Looks like way to much for cast.

[Barry54]

I see that now. WOW. 50 as start. Looks like way to much for cast.

Right! I’m glad I asked here before fouling my barrel!!

[405grain]

I use IMR-3031 for cast loads in 7x57 Mauser. It's a good powder and works well, but with charges appropriate for cast loads if does not fill the case very much. I'd recommend a small tuft of dacron filler to keep the powder charge back against the base of the cartridge case. The cartridge will still fire and work fine without the filler, but using a filler will give more uniform ignition and less velocity spread shot to shot, which improves accuracy. It only takes about 1/2 grain or so of filler. Don't pack the filler down - leave it fluffy so that it takes up the space between the powder and the base of the bullet.

As far as recoil goes, I think you'd be better off using a lighter bullet than a 330 grain slug. A 250 to 270 grain bullet would be a bit more forgiving, and probably more fun to shoot.

[MT Gianni]

If you have a 25 lb can there is no need to play with below starting loads to conserve powder.

[Barry54]

If you have a 25 lb can there is no need to play with below starting loads to conserve powder.

Who said anything about conserving it? I’m trying to use it up.

The 375 load in a lightweight Contender carbine isn’t something to enjoy shooting 20 rounds in a row.

The starting load I was looking at for the 35 Whelen of 50 grains with a 204 grain boolet at 2558 FPS didn’t seem wise. That’s why I finally got around to creating an account here to ask.

25 grains spills out of a 223 case plus buying bullets isn’t the cheapest way to use it up.

There’s no published data for 3031 in 300 Whisper/blackout but a compressed load with a free boolet and no gas check expense might work?

Might fit more of it in 30 Herrett but not sure if a 225 grain plain base would stabilize? And then I’m using precious large rifle primers to consume small amounts.

357 maximum under the 200 grain Lee? Can I use it in a straight wall case where it’s too slow like 8700 was used?

[Barry54]

I keep reading about Dacron for a filler. I finally went in Hobby Lobby with my wife one day and looked at the stuffing back in the fabric department. The polyester stuff is obvious and marked as such.
The material I suspected to be Dacron didn’t say Dacron anywhere on the packaging. Is that a brand or trademark? I need to research it further.

Well a quick internet search shows Dacron is a brand. This was on their homepage. “For more than 50 years, the dacron brand has been known for quality, innovation and technology within the bedding industry. And as one of the most tenured polyester fiber brands in the world, we create performance driven fiberfill, in a range of solutions to fit the needs of all sleepers. Whether you are seeking soft, down-like support or firm, bulky pillows, comforters, mattress pads, we have the just right solution for you.”

[stubshaft]

I wish I had 25# of 3031! It is my one of my favorite powders. If you want to use it quickly buy a 458 WM

[Kosh75287]

It's not my intention to start a "contest of urination", but I'VE always looked upon 3031 as the fastest-burning of the propellants suited for use in gas-operated rifles in service-caliber rifles (6.5 to 8mm). This may not qualify it as a "fast-burning" rifle propellant, a la the 4198s or Reloder 7, but it is apparently fast-burning enough to (now) no longer be included as an option for .308 gas-autos by Hodgdon/IMR/Whomever...
If I recall what I read correctly, Hodgdon described H4895 the slowest-burning propellant to which the 60% rule may be safely applied. But I don't remember them saying it was the ONLY propellant to which this rule was applicable. Certainly, I WOULD consult Hodgdon before making any assumptions.
A bunch of "I dunno why it would NOT work" assurances from everyone on this site does hold a candle to a definite "Yes" or "No" from the engineers at Hodgdon.

[405grain]

It doesn't have to be trademark Dacron. Polyester pillow stuffing that you can get in the fabrics section of a Walmart is the stuff I've been using. I've read that poly fiber fill is also available in mats, and this might be easier to use because you can use scissors to cut small squares out of the mat for filler, but I didn't see any during the 10 seconds that I was looking around at the store. As far as the polyester filler goes, powder coating is basically made from powdered polyester, so there's not much concern about it causing any adverse effects being used in a cartridge. About the only thing that you can do wrong with using a filler (either Kapok or polyester) is to pack the filler down tightly against the powder. This is a no-no. Packing a wad down hard against the powder column could cause pressure problems. If the filler is light and fluffy it will hold the powder charge back near the primer flash hole, and will disappear like a puff of smoke in a storm when the rifle's fired. It only takes about 1/2 to 3/4 of a grain of filler per cartridge.

I've used poly fillers in 7x57, 308, and 30-06, but only when using slower powders like IMR-4895 or IMR-3031. With faster powders like 5477, 2400, or Reloader #7, or when using smaller cases like 7.62x39, I've found that fillers aren't necessary.