Reloading Notes - Part 1 (Sizing)

[Mint]

This is my first time reloading, and thanks to tons of helpful posts here I got started yesterday after all my stuff came. Thank you to Kosh, Bazoo, EdK, and many many others for answering my countless 1000 never ending questions. Cast Boolits by far is the most welcoming knowledgable gun forum I have ever taken part in.

Considering I don't have a "mentor" to show me, and all I have is dozens of hours of reading/preparing/asking questions/watching videos... I figure it would be a good idea to post my progress as I go through it the first time, and take detailed notes, so that if I'm making any errors or there are things I'm doing someone can spot it would help me.

So here are the notes I wrote down, and some photos. I am more detailed rather than less detailed, as that would be stupid otherwise. I'm not going to assume something is small or irrelevant, as it may be very important and result in some kind of injury/increase margin of error.

Part 2, 3, maybe 4 (analyzing brass that I shoot), will come later. I'll probably attempt priming and powder today or tomorrow.

Part 1 - Sizing

My Setup

You can see photos at bottom of post.

- I plan to move BBQ/grilling related stuff into a closed container in the same shed so over time it doesn't collect reloading particles

- I plan to make 2 or 3 shelves off to the right against the wall about eye level which will hold: 1) micrometer 2) mechanical scale 3) powders, such that only 1 powder is on the bench at once, and any delicate measuring equipment won't be jarred/vibrated thousands of times... not sure if that matters

- I honestly don't know where to store primers. Right now they're in a bucket under the workbench in their original container, along with all the items for that specific caliber (44 mag brass, dies, primers). If this is not OK let me know

- I also plan to screw the table right back/front into the slats of the wall to prevent wiggle

- I bought a RCBS chargemaster supreme yesterday after I talked to a few people about beginners blowing up their guns using very fast powders. While they did that by doing things I don't ever see myself doing (not zeroing scale, etc), I wanted to be extra safe rather than sorry, so I can measure twice with 2 different scales while I'm starting, as I have no idea what will look visually right or wrong.

Notes from Sizing

- I'm sizing 500x .357 starline brass for use with lead bullets in different lever guns. I'm doing sizing before loading even though they're new as I've read a few different places this is a good idea for consistency

- I encountered pressure galling which I resolved here: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...s-after-sizing

- I wasnt actually sure what to "look for" when sizing to make sure its done correctly... so all I did was notice that it makes the brass extremely shiny and smooth, when compared to about 1/8" at bottom of case that doesn't get sized. I looked for consistent shininess, so hopefully that's about it as far as what to inspect.

- The lee dies say only finger tighten. I notice my dies look different than many videos I see where they use a wrench. Every 100 rounds I would re-tighten it with my finger. The most I've ever needed to re-tighten it was maybe 1mm turn.

- I noticed I banged the case into the carbide ring quite a few times, usually if I didn't seat it far enough, or too far. I noticed its like 1mm from the edge of the shell holder, which is really quite clever, because the brass sticks to your finger for 1 millisecond, so naturally every time it will pull away JUST enough to go in perfectly. If the brass banged into the shell holder very badly, I notice the mouth would be very dented. I did this maybe 4-5 times, and I discarded those cases. When I bumped it gently, and I inspected the rim and it was not/just barely noticeable, I would size it again and call it good as long as there was not really a noticeable bump with my finger.

- I noticed if I place the shell holder at 225 degrees [/] rather than 270 degrees [-], I would accidentally bang it into the carbide ring less frequently]

- I noticed efficiency wise, not lowering the ram all the way down was better, just as long as I make sure to do 100% follow through.

- Now.. this last one, I experimented with the most efficient ways to load brass with my off hand. I found 3 methods so far...

1) ONLY ONE case in hand at all times (slowest, least error prone).

2) While ram is raised, grab 2nd brass and keep hidden in palm. Use pointer fingers to throw sized brass into bucket (while still holding unsized brass) then move palmed brass into shell holder (2nd fastest, most error prone)

3) While ram is raised, grab 2nd brass in palm. When ram is lowered, immediately SWAP old vs new brass, and then throw sized brass into bucket (fastest, 2nd most error prone)

Method 2 is most error prone because 2 times once my mind went onto auto pilot I threw the wrong brass into the bucket. I immediately rejected this method because of this.

Method 3 I like most, and it has less margin of error rather than 2 (while on autopilot) because you only ever hold 1 brass at a time when you're throwing, so you cant accidentally throw the wrong one.

While I didnt encounter any errors with method 3, I decided to stick with method 1 which has basically LEAST propensity to error, just so I could turn my mind on autopilot and not worry about it.

Thanks for reading!

[pworley1]

That is a nice looking setup, but it is way to uncluttered.

[The Dar]

Very nice, but I can see you'll be running out of room on that surface in no time.

I would store your powders elsewhere so that you only have the one you're using on the bench.

[Mint]

Very nice, but I can see you'll be running out of room on that surface in no time.

I would store your powders elsewhere so that you only have the one you're using on the bench.

Thanks, I addressed that in one of my points, but I agree with you. I'm going to mount them off to the right so they're still within my vision but not on the bench.

[Wayne Smith]

Yeah, you haven't built your shelves yet. Once you do that and get your powders and scale off the bench it will have a little more room.

[dverna]

Get a case kicker.

Measuring twice is going to get old real quick. Use a powder dipper. Cheap, fast and safe.

DO NOT USE A LOADING BLOCK to charge your cases. When you are ready to add powder and a bullet, put powder in the case....and immediately seat the bullet. Do not let the case leave your hand until the bullet is seated.

It is impossible to double charge a case using the above method.

[Mint]

Get a case kicker.

Measuring twice is going to get old real quick. Use a powder dipper. Cheap, fast and safe.

DO NOT USE A LOADING BLOCK to charge your cases. When you are ready to add powder and a bullet, put powder in the case....and immediately seat the bullet. Do not let the case leave your hand until the bullet is seated.

It is impossible to double charge a case using the above method.

Wow that ejector looks interesting. Is this what youre referring to? https://inlinefabrication.com/produc...r-single-stage

Also I wasnt going to measure every one twice... just the first 20 or so to make sure the electronic scale is working, and then maybe once every 20 or so.

I havent read up what "drift" is but I see it mentioned a lot, I planned to do that. If anyone wants to say any dos/donts of scales that would help. I havent read the manual yet (just brought it home 10 mins ago)

Also, thanks for pointing out not using the loading block. I actually saw a video where some guy loaded all 100 cases facing the other direction and that seemed error prone to me, even though he was inspecting all the cases with a little light.

[Winger Ed.]

You're doing well. You might not even shoot your eye out kid.

I'd get all the extra powder & primers off the table and up on a shelf or cabinet.
(After you're done-- then it's OK to pile a bunch of clutter back on the bench)
A set of those Lee dippers will do well for what you're doing and speed up the process.

I wouldn't bother with two scales. One that's accurate and you trust is fine.
Using two is like someone wearing both a belt and suspenders because they don't trust their pants.

When sizing like you're doing, I have 4-5-6 in my hand. Run one in, do the stroke, flip it out of the press and let it drop
into a bucket or box that's elevated some up off the floor, then put in the next one.
It sounds like you'd ding them up, but mine don't ever get hurt.

For priming, I'll have a bowl of sized cases, then set them into a loading block as they come off the primer step.
As they come out with a new primer, you can both see and feel if is set right.
I do use a loading try and powder measure/dropper.
I charge all the cases in the block, then look down into all of them before starting all the boolits in their case.
It will be obvious if one is dangerously over or under charged.

Then in one motion- do the seating step, then set the seated round in a bowl a little past the charged cases
so I can drop that one and pick up the next one in one motion.

For the crimp stage, I'll hold a few and run them though the press like doing the sizing and priming steps.


I'm not trying to tell ya how to do this, just what works for me.
You'll develop your own methods & rhythm.
Some of the ways I do it may pick your speed up as your confidence builds.

[Mint]

Ha yes great example with the suspenders + belt. I didnt mean measure EVERY one, just the first 20 or so to make sure the scale works, as well as checking occassionally to make sure it remains accurate.

Over time I will be more comfortable but currently I don't even know what one grain of bullseye powder looks like, so I couldnt currently tell something is off.

When I use lee dippers, what if you want some weight in between what the 2 scoops are, do you need to use one of each scoop (so youre holding multiple ones in your hand)? Isnt that more error prone?

Good idea on the 4-5 at a time.... funny you mentioned throwing them on the floor i almost considered that but didnt want to dent them. great minds think alike!

[1hole]

This is my first time reloading, and thanks to tons of helpful posts here I got started yesterday after all my stuff came.

I first reloaded in mid 1965, by the book. There were no videos and, without mentor, I too was quite apprehensive. I don't consider myself an expert (yet! ) but I am more confident now. Your post rings more than a few bells! I very well remember opening that first mail order box filled with strange things.

I don't have a "mentor" to show me, and all I have is dozens of hours of reading/preparing/asking questions/watching videos... I figure it would be a good idea to post my progress as I go through it the first time, and take detailed notes, so that if I'm making any errors or there are things I'm doing someone can spot it would help me.

Nothing you're doing is "unsafe error" but some of it is over reacting. For instance, you need not fear any poisonous reloading dust or fumes contaminating your charcoal grill! Nor is there any value in sizing straight wall cases hard to the rim, just size down far enough for your reloads to pass the "plunk" test; they'll feed fine, you won't endanger your dies and your cases will last longer.

- I plan to make 2 or 3 shelves off to the right against the wall about eye level which will hold: 1) micrometer 2) mechanical scale ...

Good start but you're unlikely to ever have enough storage space. Open shelving for powders, bullets and primers is fine and allows you to "inventory" those supplies at a glance IF you keep the shelving narrow enough to keep things from getting lost to the rear. Wall shelving no more than 6 or 8 inches wide works well for small stuff while higher and wider shelves work great for powders.

Having a micrometer is nice but having a 6" caliper is much nicer.

I have some very costly machinist measuring tools but the calipers sold by Harbor Freight for $20 or less have proven to be as good as any other costing less than $200. (Either way, if/when you drop those things the width of your tear tracks will vary directly with the cost of replacing them!)

Scales; a magnetically dampened, clean and undamaged balance scale is totally reliable, totally repeatable and lasts forever. I'm still using my 1965 powder scale and it still reads my original test weight (260.9 gr.) exactly the same as the first day.

Beam scales and a manual powder trickler serve us best when they're solidly supported (not press mounted) very near the powder measure and at or just below eye level; that makes them precise and as easy/fast reading to use as anyone's flaky bench top digital scale. IMHO, beam scales are for gun powder, digitals are for cases and bullets. (And a simple hanky laid over the scale makes a great dust cover!)

Please don't mount your scale where you'll have to make a half turn to use it, you would soon regret that. Instead put it's shelf on the wall across from and slightly to the left of your press for a maximum smooth work flow.

.... such that only 1 powder is on the bench at once, and any delicate measuring equipment won't be jarred/vibrated thousands of times... not sure if that matters.

Yeah, I often read that expert advice too. But, as an old amature, I suggest putting the containers of your in-use powder - and primers and bullets - to the far left on the same shelf as your powder scale (keep things neat, put nothing but manuals, cases and loading blocks directly on your bench top). That practice prevents component mix-up AND reduces bench clutter.

Steel office supply storage lockers and filing cabinets can often be bought cheep from many thrift shops for not much. I prefer those lockers and cabinets for storing cases, tumblers & media, dies, case trimmers, concentricity gages, bulk primers, case lubes, loading blocks, paper towels, waterless hand cleaners, loading manuals, etc. The lockable doors help control both shop dust and grandkids.

I honestly don't know where to store primers. Right now they're in a bucket under the workbench in their original container, along with all the items for that specific caliber (44 mag brass, dies, primers). If this is not OK let me know

That's fine for safety but in practice I think you're likely to find it clumsy. Both primers and powders are much more resistant to aging than many folk believe.

Cold doesn't do anything harmful to primers (or powder) but long term exposure to humanly uncomfortable heat - say, more than 85 F - will accelerate the aging of powders but that's highly variable. The fastest I've ever had a powder go bad was IMR 4895 kept for maybe 10 years in my unheated/uncooled detached garage workshop/loading room. But, I'm still happily using the last of my original Hodgdon 50 lb. drum of WW2 surplus 4831!

I also plan to screw the table right back/front into the slats of the wall to prevent wiggle

Good idea, screws are MUCH better than nails and for the quantity you'll need there won't be much final cost difference.

I've learned to love Lowe's/H'Depot "dry wall" screws! Those hardened steel screws are not just stronger than nails but they make life much easier when adding to or removing from a pre-existing arrangement made with hammers and nails. A good bench is probably the single best reloading "tool" you will ever have.

Suggest you make your bench "legs" in the form of angled "knee braces" instead of vertical legs. Even 1"x4" knee braces properly screwed between the wall studs and floor plate and anchored against the bottom of the bench top are just as strong as massive vertical 4x4" legs and the braces will never be in the way of your feet.

I bought a RCBS chargemaster supreme yesterday after I talked to a few people about beginners blowing up their guns using very fast powders. While they did that by doing things I don't ever see myself doing (not zeroing scale, etc), I wanted to be extra safe rather than sorry, so I can measure twice with 2 different scales while I'm starting, as I have no idea what will look visually right or wrong.

I suppose IF I were a modern mechanical klutz who gets puzzled around machinery with moving parts like pliers I might be interested in gadgets like the currently popular auto powder dispensers but ... I'm not that easily confused. Therefore, I get a littlee bit angry at reloading "experts" who seek to convince noobs that they NEED such costly contraptions.

Fact is, I've known a lot of new reloaders over the last 5-6 decades but I know of no one who was so confused about what they were doing that they made things that go KABOOM! because they didn't have an expensive digital scale or auto-dispenser. Costly tools will never be a functional substitute for a functioning brain but I'd bet those helpful guys you spoke with have heard - and probably believe - some false tall tails!

Notes from Sizing - I'm sizing 500x .357 starline brass for use with lead bullets in different lever guns. I'm doing sizing before loading even though they're new as I've read a few different places this is a good idea for consistency.

No .357 and lead bullets from lever guns are ever going to shoot like bench rifles so being finicky about Case length or loaded COAL, or powder charges individually weighted to +/- .1 gr., etc., will never matter.

I encountered pressure galling which I resolved here: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...s-after-sizing

Galling is ONLY caused by forcing a very dry soft metal (tumbled or brand new cases) over a harder metal (hardened die) under enough pressure to reform the softer. The ONLY effective preventative of galling is to apply a little bit of case lube. A spritz of any spray lube into a plastic bag of cases and then mashed/spread around by hand will prevent it.

- I wasnt actually sure what to "look for" when sizing to make sure its done correctly... so all I did was notice that it makes the brass extremely shiny and smooth, when compared to about 1/8" at bottom of case that doesn't get sized. I looked for consistent shininess, so hopefully that's about it as far as what to inspect.

As mentioned by someone above, galled sizing dies (steel or carbide) must be cleaned down to bare metal or it will continue to accumulate and scratch your cases. And, again, you need not jam a fired "straight" wall case as far into a sizer as it can go.

The lee dies say only finger tighten. I notice my dies look different than many videos I see where they use a wrench.

Lee is right, hand tight dies are plenty tight. Some of our very best die makers use knurled lock rings to keep "expert" users from happily putting pliers and wrenches on them. That won't harm the dies but it sure chews up the lock rings, and for no gain at all.

Any perceived "change" in how far down an installed Lee die appears comes from compressing Lee's rubber "O" ring friction device, not from die movement. Truth is, hand tight dies will NOT vibrate in or out when in use. IMHO, a "1 mm" change in a lock ring is no effective change at all (And, yeah, I always strive for and sometimes get 1 hole groups from some of my factory rifle barrels.)

I noticed I banged the case into the carbide ring quite a few times, usually if I didn't seat it far enough, or too far. I noticed its like 1mm from the edge of the shell holder, which is really quite clever, because the brass sticks to your finger for 1 millisecond, so naturally every time it will pull away JUST enough to go in perfectly. If the brass banged into the shell holder very badly, I notice the mouth would be very dented. I did this maybe 4-5 times, and I discarded those cases. When I bumped it gently, and I inspected the rim and it was not/just barely noticeable, I would size it again and call it good as long as there was not really a noticeable bump with my finger.

- I noticed if I place the shell holder at 225 degrees [/] rather than 270 degrees [-], I would accidentally bang it into the carbide ring less frequently]

Not sure what you mean here ... are you referring to Lee's conventional carbide sizer OR to their FCD excellent seating die with a crimper, including their excellent carbide post seating sizing ring - OR ... ???

[Winger Ed.]

When I use lee dippers, what if you want some weight in between what the 2 scoops are, do you need to use one of each scoop (so youre holding multiple ones in your hand)? Isnt that more error prone?

Good idea on the 4-5 at a time.... funny you mentioned throwing them on the floor i almost considered that but didnt want to dent them.

I don't use dippers, but they work just fine if you do.
Be consistent with the scooping. You don't want some 'fluffy' and some sort of packed into it.
An adjustable powder measure is just a glorified version of the same principle.
For one in the middle between two-- I've heard of guys shaving the top off the next bigger one until it's the volume you want.

For dropping sized cases, I have a cardboard box or a big plastic bowl sitting on top of a over turned 5 gallon bucket.
I drop them to be quicker,,,,,, but they don't really fall very far.

[dverna]

Wow that ejector looks interesting. Is this what youre referring to? https://inlinefabrication.com/produc...r-single-stage

Also I wasnt going to measure every one twice... just the first 20 or so to make sure the electronic scale is working, and then maybe once every 20 or so.

I havent read up what "drift" is but I see it mentioned a lot, I planned to do that. If anyone wants to say any dos/donts of scales that would help. I havent read the manual yet (just brought it home 10 mins ago)

Also, thanks for pointing out not using the loading block. I actually saw a video where some guy loaded all 100 cases facing the other direction and that seemed error prone to me, even though he was inspecting all the cases with a little light.

I have that case kicker on my RCBS RockChucker.

[Mint]

1hole, very aweome reply thank you, I'm just about to eat and I need to rest my brain and I can give more attention to your awesome answer. To answer your last question... if the case isnt perfectly aligned while sizing in the case holder, it will hit the carbide ring when you pull the lever down rather than traveling through it, so it basically bangs the case and dents the mouth

[Moleman-]

Looks like a better starter setup than I had. For the cases you threw out. Unless they're really damaged or cut they can usually be tapped back into shape over a rod held in a vise or by sticking something like a tapered centerpunch in it. Stepped on brass as long as it's not totally flat can be saved and reused. On low pressure handgun brass it may take a few firings before the brass smooths out again and is unnoticable. If it were me, I'd keep the powder and primers inside someplace that doesn't get too hot or damp.

[Bazoo]

Isolating the scale is a good idea.

Primers are happy wherever as long as they don’t get wet or real hot. A bucket will suffice, preferably with lid.

What to look for with brass? Well, cracks or something out of the ordinary. You’ll feel it when something ain’t right after a while. I rarely inspect brass specifically until I have a finished round. Then I roll several in my palm for a final inspection. But I do glance at them during the processes. I mean I don’t look at each piece as a separate step. I inspect it as I handle it.

I don’t use a loading block except for when I charge cases with powder. So all the other time I work out of coffee cans or Tupperware. Primed, ready to load brass in a coffee can on one side of the powder measure/dipper station, loading block on the other side.

When you charge cases and get a block full ready to inspect, then I will sometimes throw a double charge into a case and use that as a visual for comparison. But you got to make absolutely sure you dump that case back in the measure.

Dented cases are still loadable. If it gets a crease, then no. Sometimes you may need to use the second die, the belling or expanding die, to iron out a dent, then size again. As long as it chambers, a little dent will iron out upon firing.

When you use lee dippers, you pretty much get what you get. You don’t use two different ones to get a charge, for safety. You can modify them to throw a specific charge.

The way I change cases with an O frame press is, left hand grabs a fresh case between finger and thumb, the case that’s on the ram is removed with my middle finger. I stick my middle finger behind it and snatch it out of the shell holder and into my palm and in an instant stick the new case in with my thumb. Drop that case into the tub and reach for another.

I put the drop tub somewhere down normally and I lay the ones To be sized on the bench. Dump them in a shallow pan or on a towel. Put your eyes on only the one you’re going to grab and get it.

[Misery-Whip]

Before you collect, and fill your work space, id insulate the walls, and add more bench space. Reloading is addicting, and i want to be able to do it comfortably. Year round.


But im old and getting set in my ways.... your doin good, keep up the good work. Ive used dippers for years. Especially on small rounds like 380 and 32acp.

[jetinteriorguy]

I see the issue with the case mouth getting dinged has been addressed by Bazoo so I’ll skip my comment on that, the only thing I’d change is where you have your press mounted right next to the wall. I’d move it further out so you can mount some bins by it. Being right handed I pump the handle with my left and insert/remove shell cases with my right. I actually have two bins on my right and one on the left side of the press. On the right one bin for unprocessed brass, the left for processed brass. Then when seating bullets, the one furthest to the right holds brass ready to be charged with powder, and the one on the right holds the bullets. I pick out a piece of brass, charge it and insert it into the shell holder, add the bullet, seat it, and then remove it and put the finished product in the bin to the left. Basically it’s about good work flow. I also have my powder measure mounted next to the press on the right side in front of the bin with the processed cases so it’s very handy for charging. I also have a very sturdy shelf directly in back of the press so my scale sits at eye level for when I’m working up loads.

[Mint]

The way I change cases with an O frame press is, left hand grabs a fresh case between finger and thumb, the case that’s on the ram is removed with my middle finger. I stick my middle finger behind it and snatch it out of the shell holder and into my palm and in an instant stick the new case in with my thumb. Drop that case into the tub and reach for another.

As a sidenote, most of what I do for a living is related to efficiency. On my list of things important to me, efficiency is paramount. I find delight in even the smallest details... for example you have improved upon my very similar method a fraction by using your palm to grab the finished case, rather than the to-do case. Such a miniscule detail that gives me great delight

Thanks for all the other information, this is great. I'm about to go out there now and prime some, and follow some advice in this thread and make a few loads.

[Bazoo]

I went and got a picture for you. I didn’t realize I also use my ring finger. Grabbing the case between my middle and ring finger and then into my palm. For me, it’s fumble free and quick.

About to remove the finished case


Finished case removed and about to insert the next

[Mint]

Ok I have a question... I bought 2 sample packs of .357 lead bullets.

Both are 157 grain RNFP.

On the red bullet, the crimp groove is obviously the green arrow.

But which arrow is it on the black one? I would assume the blue one?