Suspect Model 65 in 218Bee

[BobInAus]

Good afternoon gents,
I have what I suspect is a model 65 Winchester. Why I say suspect is because the serial number is 1002065 and my limited research indicated that the Model 65s were introduced in 1933 and the date of manufacture of mine was 1934. Further the top tang has the word Winchester in a type of lightning bolt printing as in the Model 65s. It also has a Model 65 mail order barrel chambered in 218 Bee. My research also established that Winchester introduced the 218 Bee cartridge in 1937. As the depression commenced prior to this date frames and barrels could well have laid around dormant in assembly bins and racks for some time prior to being assembled into a rifle possibly allowing for mismatching of barrels and frames indicating frames made before barrels etc. My thoughts are if my frame is indeed a model 65 and originally had a 32 wcf or a 25 wcf barrel and rebarreled with the 218Bee barrel for whatever reason or could have replaced the original 218Bee barrel with a further 218 Bee barrel also for whatever reason. I may never know the real story.
Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated.
Regards
Bob.

[Wilderness]

Bob - my M65 Bee is SN 10003474 (with a 'W'). The underside of the barrel is marked 38, and the rifle was sold by Sil Rohu in Sydney to my late father in 1939. It is all original including Lyman 56A receiver sight and non-detachable sling swivels. The forward swivel is like the modern forend swivels with a machine thread and nut, except it is mounted through the centre of the magazine plug. Very neat indeed.

The lightning writing on the tang started in the late 1920s and at the same time the model went from being marked on the tang to being marked on the barrel. Thus the same receivers could be used for the 92, 53 and 65. I had a M92 carbine in .44-40 #970473 with the lightning writing on the tang. I think it was 1927.

I presume your mail order barrel has the double proof stamping. Some 92s and 94s in Australia were fitted with later model barrels in the 1930s - Model 53 barrels are common (a neighbor had one on a 73), 94s got Model 64 barrels, and I have recently seen stainless .25-20 and .32-20 barrels matched to much older M92 actions (obvious rebarrels).

Your Model 65 should have the pistol grip stock and the large nearly flat checkered steel buttplate as also fitted to pre 64 Model 70, M71 and M64. Otherwise I would call it a M92 (crescent buttplate) or a Model 53 (flat buttplate with horizontal scoring).

The last point of difference is the firing pin. The Model 65 Bee has a smaller diameter firing pin tip (looks the same as the M94). As far as I know, the M65s in .32-20 or .25-20 all had the fat M92 firing pin tip, although I have not yet come across a very late .32 or .25 to see if there was a late changeover. It was standard for post war Australian gunsmith conversions of M92s to .218 Bee to use a turned down firing pin in a bushed bolt face, so this detail might require a very close look.

Please let us know how these details match.

[quack1]

Go to The Winchester Arms Collector Association and ask about your gun in the rifle forum. Lots of advanced, knowledgeable collectors on that site.
I ran your model 65 serial on the site and it showed that it was made in 1930.

[BobInAus]

Hey Wilderness,
Thank you for so much information. You have to be happy with an all original model 65 in 218 Bee, especially being your fathers rifle and purchased new. What a good pass me down.
Yes, the barrel has the “P” (post) in a circle and Winchester proof in front of the breach. The barrel has the ‘Model 65’ and further down the ‘Winchester’ name in the lightning writing as on the upper tang. We have the pistol grip stock and checkered butt plate with the wide Wheelan forend.
Something further to my inquiries and the second reason for it not being an original model 65 218Bee – it has a bushed bolt face and small firing pin. Believe it or not but I had been told this anomaly years ago. So, it looks like I might have a Model 65 previously chambered in either .32 or .25 made in 1934 with a “40” stamped on the under side of the barrel.
Could it be possible that my 1934 receiver could have been one of those stored in assembly bins and racks for later use considering the depression etc. and the “40” stamped barrel used to assemble the rifle sometime later. (‘dreaming’ doesn’t change the bushed bolt face).
My 1934 DOM came from the ‘WINCHESTER DATES OF MANUFACTURE’ site. Well, I might have jumped the gun a little, if I had have remembered the bushed bolt face I would not have wasted all this time looking for ‘The Real Story’.
Thanks again for the reply and great information.
Bob

[Wilderness]

Bob - I'd be guessing that someone got carried away when the .218 chambering came along, and had to have one, hence the conversion. Or it might have happened later.

The 1940 date on the barrel however is interesting, since by then Australia was at war and no longer importing frivolous stuff from U.S. like spare sporting rifle barrels. Nor was it easy after the war, with tight restrictions on obtaining US$. Your barrel might have slipped through after the war, or the rifle might have been rebarreled in U.S. and come to Australia in its current form. Nor would it surprise me if Numrich were selling factory surplus .218 barrels after the war, and yours may have come from this source. I do know they had M64 Winchester .32 Special barrels beyond the lifting of the dollar restrictions (early 1960s).

[Shawlerbrook]

A letter from the museum in Cody, Wyoming would probably clear things up but they are not free.

[Shawlerbrook]

A couple of guys that might shed light on this are Michael Puzo( doing research on 1892’s) or Bert Hartman( studying the 1894). These guys are encyclopedias on Winchester leverguns. PM me if you want contact information.