Although I love my 1895 Marlin 45/70's (I have 3 of them), I carry a Freedom Arms FA83 in .454 Casull when bowhunting in bear country.
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Although I love my 1895 Marlin 45/70's (I have 3 of them), I carry a Freedom Arms FA83 in .454 Casull when bowhunting in bear country.
Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!
Men who don't understand women fall into two categories: bachelors and husbands!
I'd use my Browning 1886 SRC, and my Ruger OM 45 Colt for backup.
I love my Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun as wellOriginally Posted by MrWolf
I own a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 and have not used it enough cycling it fast or practicing fast repeat shots to feel comfortable using it for bear defense. I also own a old original Ruger 44 carbine in 44 mag. It shoots 310 gr. FP’s very reliably but not very accurately at 100 yards but at close range it would be what I would want in my hands.
It’s much handier than a short lever gun or even a shotgun and mine is reliable as a chisel.
Jedman
Must be a lot of problems with bears!
It seems the worse I have to deal with is squirrels.
Some people have all the luck!
45/70's and 454 Casulls work on squirrels too
Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!
Men who don't understand women fall into two categories: bachelors and husbands!
Think I would pick either a 45/70 guide gun, or one of the Model 89 leverguns in 460 S&W or 500 S&W
To answer the original question and restated in post #12 I would pick a short, handy lever gun in .45-70 and most likely a Marlin Guide Gun or the Henry with 18.43" barrel. I prefer a buttstock so no mare's leg style for me!
I would load it with hard cast bullets at least 400 grs. as well and most likely loaded to max. Marlin pressure.
Longbow
Pick the caliber with which you can hit best, under time pressure. Between the .45-70 and the .444 Marlin, I think I'd want the .45-70. I think a large projectile, half-again to twice the weight of the .444's slug, travelling at 60% to 75% the .444's velocity will tend to penetrate better to(through) vitals at short range.
If you can shoot a .44 Magnum or .45 Colt carbine better than the more powerful calibers, use one of those. It's the HITS that'll matter.
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40
Carpe SCOTCH!
That’s what I would have thought.
If he's thinking all day carry a couple pounds makes a difference. A .44 lever gun the same size as a short 45-70 must weigh less. I'd think that would make a difference as the day wears on.
Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.
About 40 years ago I worked for a gunsmith that was building short barreled bolt rifles for guides in Alaska. These were .375 magnums on a rifle that weighed about 5.5 pounds. I made a comment that I would not want to shoot one and was told that the guides didn't want to either but if need be there was enough power to stop a bear with one shot. Later I learned that most guides were using 12 gauge shotgun with alternating 00 buck shot and slugs. Seems a blast of OO buck in the face at close range would change the mind of attacking bears. There was never any talk of a guide using a pistol.
My 480 Ruger Carbine lever action 16” bbl fast into action easy to shoot and accurate with hard cast 325 grain WFN.
One of the things that seems to get overlooked is this type of discussion is context. What is best for a guide going after a clients wounded grizzly bear verse some salmon fishing in a stream verse living and working in bear country year around.
If I was going in after a wounded grizzly a 10mm auto pistol would be way down on my list. For that application a 375H&H would be at the top of the list but for daily normal working and living in grizzly bear country I would want something that was going to be with me 100% of the time.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
All I am wondering is do the folks here, when it comes to a lever gun, think a slightly lighter and handier pistol caliber carbine would be preferred to a full size gun in .45-70...
Seems that most would choose the extra weight of the full size gun...
Bob
Full size means different things to different people. I would be very comfortable using my 45-70 Guide gun as a bear stopper in bear country. Loaded with Garrett or Buffalo Bore type loads it should be very effective. I also have 45/70 with barrels up to 30 inches. To me they are too long for general daily carry.
From the statics most bear attacks are deterred even with less than fatal hits. Injured grizzly bears or ones in a really bad mood tend only to stop when they are dead. If I am carrying a rifle want it to be effective in the worst-case scenarios.
That being same when I was in Alaska this summer for a month in the bush I carried a double stack 460 Rowland. The one time we had to deal with a small grizzly on the porch I had a 375 H&H in one hand and a slingshot in the other with a buddy backing me up with a 12 gauge with slugs. We had a 6 foot grizzly withing 20 feet three times. Daily bear sightings were common. Largest was about 9 feet pushing 1,000 pounds at 40 yards.
The slingshot was used to scare nuisance bears away from the cabin when shooting over their backs with the 12 gauge didn't scare them.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 11-04-2022 at 04:23 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I would rather use my guide gun in 45-70 than my 44 mag golden boy or my 1873 357 magnum. My guide gun feeds the larger cartridges better..even though there is less..id take 45-70 over a tube full of 44mag any day with bear. And as I said before..id really rather have my 470ne double.
Just fun campfire conversation.
If I wanted to take a step down in weight from the guide gun in a lever action it would be to a Model 94 Trapper in .30-30. It is as handy as it gets in a long arm for hiking and working in the Bush and is more versatile than anything in a pistol caliber. Sadly no longer made, but sometimes available used. Limited to only one choice it would be a stainless 4 5/8” Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 magnum, and at least 50 rounds of practice every month. The advantage of a holstered handgun is that it does not have to be set down to free your hands and won’t go flying out of your hands if you are hit by surprise.
OK lets look at that .45-70 to 12 ga comparison. .45-70 with a 515 gr boolit at with 27 gr of 5744 will be lucky to break 1000 fps. I know that because my 325 gr boolits with 33 gr of 5744 only make 1550fps, and during work up from 25 gr,,, 27 gr yielded @1200 fps which had a Rainbow trajectory and was not usable for my Silhouette Game...
TKO for your combo is 33.7 .... A 1 oz. 12 ga. slug (437 gr) at 1300 fps is 54.7 and same slug at 1600 fps is 70. Even my 325 gr boolits are at TKO of 33 which is close to the big mondo 515 gr boolit.
The .45-70 big slug will no doubt penetrate deeper than the Shotgun Slug but if it goes all the way thru it just dumps it's energy in the dirt beyond. The Shotgun Slug dumps it's energy immediately after contact.
Taylor Knock out is the most accurate method of comparing various loads against each other. It tends to favor the larger bore size because more frontal area promotes faster energy transfer .
Randy
Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 11-05-2022 at 11:02 PM.
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