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Thread: Another bear-gun question....

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Another bear-gun question....

    Have wondered about this for a while... Probably the best rated bear gun, especially for BIG bears, is the Marlin 1895 .45-70, especially in their short versions. That said, most people carry handguns for bear defense in everything from 9mm to .500 S&W because of the convenience of size, portability and it always being on their body, vs next to a tree or in the canoe at the time of need.

    Since the Lucky Gunner study finds that handgun calibers are very effective for self-defense against bears, my question is, if you could not for some reason carry a handgun with you in the woods, like in Canada, and had to have a rifle, in this case a levergun, would you choose a large caliber like a Marlin in .45-70 or .444 or a more compact pistol caliber like .41/.44 Magnum/.45 Colt...

    Thanks....Bob

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
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    I would pick what you are the most comfortable carrying and shooting. 44 mag or heavy loaded 45 Colt are both at least 20 % more powerful out of a 16” - 18” barrel than a handgun. A pump shotgun would even be better .

    Jedman

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM52 View Post
    Have wondered about this for a while... Probably the best rated bear gun, especially for BIG bears, is the Marlin 1895 .45-70, especially in their short versions. That said, most people carry handguns for bear defense in everything from 9mm to .500 S&W because of the convenience of size, portability and it always being on their body, vs next to a tree or in the canoe at the time of need.

    Since the Lucky Gunner study finds that handgun calibers are very effective for self-defense against bears, my question is, if you could not for some reason carry a handgun with you in the woods, like in Canada, and had to have a rifle, in this case a levergun, would you choose a large caliber like a Marlin in .45-70 or .444 or a more compact pistol caliber like .41/.44 Magnum/.45 Colt...

    Thanks....Bob
    I concur 100% with Jedman's suggestions. One quite important addition is the necessity for you to HIT your target! In many years of Hunter Education classes a regular discussion was, "Is it better to hit the target with a .22 or miss the target with a .357 Magnum?" Assuming your question is not a purely hypothetical one -- from what I understand one does not have many seconds of time to get whatever firearm up and aimed at the charging bear -- so, again, one's ability for an almost-guaranteed shot is paramount. Also, from what I've read, a 2nd, 3rd, and even more hits are requisite for arresting the bear's charge.
    geo

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


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    I don't live in the North so have no experience but I would have to say a pump shotgun first then a short Marlin lever action in 45-70.
    Rick

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickinTN View Post
    I don't live in the North so have no experience but I would have to say a pump shotgun first then a short Marlin lever action in 45-70.
    Rick
    ^^Agreed^^ - and if restricted to a pistol, I would carry a 44 magnum. For a rifle, it would definitely be a Marlin in 45-70, primarily because I already have one.
    Last edited by HWooldridge; 11-03-2022 at 01:36 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM52 View Post
    Have wondered about this for a while... Probably the best rated bear gun, especially for BIG bears, is the Marlin 1895 .45-70, especially in their short versions. That said, most people carry handguns for bear defense in everything from 9mm to .500 S&W because of the convenience of size, portability and it always being on their body, vs next to a tree or in the canoe at the time of need.

    Since the Lucky Gunner study finds that handgun calibers are very effective for self-defense against bears, my question is, if you could not for some reason carry a handgun with you in the woods, like in Canada, and had to have a rifle, in this case a levergun, would you choose a large caliber like a Marlin in .45-70 or .444 or a more compact pistol caliber like .41/.44 Magnum/.45 Colt...

    Thanks....Bob
    Has to be a levergun, the 45-70 likely.. while 444 is right there.. I think 45-70 will do it as well or better.. with better ammo availability.. which may or may not be an issue for most here anyway.

    Now.. that said.. If I was going out looking for trouble.. er.. bear... I would likely take my double in 470 Nitro Express. I would feel many levels more comfortable with that gun and it's stopping ability for any bear ....

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Why does it have to be a lever action? Looks are the least of my concerns if I think I will be facing a bear...even a black bear.

    I would take my Mossberg 500 with 18.5" barrel loaded with buckshot for black bears.
    Don Verna


  8. #8
    Boolit Master



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    Bob - Have you eliminated shotguns from your criteria? Nuthin wrong with a high quality 12 ga loaded with slugs. If you are also considering uses other than bear - Carry weight and ease of carry would be worth considering.
    Being human is not for sissies.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I used to have a Marlin 1895 I regrettably sold and didn't replace. I decided on a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag. because they are handy, light and offer fast multiple follow up shots... if they don't jam!

    I liked my 1894 and I think the .44 mag. loaded hot and with heavy bullet is adequate for bears but I have had endless issues with unreliability feeding, the dreaded Marlin jam and recently the carrier spring plunger failed! I have lost confidence in this gun!

    Multiple follow up shots are no good if they don't feed!

    So, pick an adequate cartridge, and I'd say .44 mag. is at the bottom end of adequate, loaded with a heavy hard bullet and a reliable gun!

    As for shotguns, I now carry a Mossberg 500 loaded with hard cast balls or slugs in preference to buckshot because some of our bears ar equite large.

    My opinion anyway.

    Longbow

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Lot of fella's thinking like me. 870 12ga. trimmed down to legal at both the stock & barrel to make it handy. Small is more likely to be with you when you are surprised. Slugs. You're not hunting bears, you are preparing to defend yourself against bears, so distances will be close. Mossberg does make that "Shock Wave" thing that looks like the old "witness" shotgun. That would work.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedman View Post
    I would pick what you are the most comfortable carrying and shooting. 44 mag or heavy loaded 45 Colt are both at least 20 % more powerful out of a 16” - 18” barrel than a handgun.

    A pump shotgun would even be better .

    Jedman
    ^^^^This^^^^

    Most Bear Hunting Guides carry a Pump Shotgun as a back up because of the Portability, Power, and Fast Follow Up Shots. There was a show in TV about the Polar Bear Guides in Churchill Manitoba. They all carried 870's loaded with Brenneke Slugs.

    If you are relying on a pistol you better be able to actually shoot it, and that takes lots and lots of practice. A Short Rifle in either .44 Magnum or .45-70 would be a better choice, but a 12 ga with proper slugs would easily be twice as powerful!

    I would also recommend a few Combat Shotgun Classes so you could get the hang of running the gun in close combat situations, and really get your gun handling down pat.

    There is a lot to learn there and it takes time to perfect the skills, but it takes less time than trying to become a deadeye shooter under pressure with a pistol.

    Randy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_2249.jpg   IMG_2281.jpg   100464896.JPG   100464870.JPG  
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 11-03-2022 at 12:22 PM.
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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    The question is:

    Which would YOU prefer...a full size lever action rifle like a 1895 in .45-70, .444, .405 Winchester or a more compact pistol caliber carbine in .357, .41, .44 .45 Colt .454....

    That is the only question I asked...no shotguns, bolt guns, double rifles....

    Thanks..Bob

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
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    Whatever you choose make sure it’s something that will by your side 100% of the time.

  14. #14
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    Bullet placement trumps all calibers. A 45/70 Marlin has proven to work for me. I carried a 44 mag sometimes. The argument of a gun on your person instead of leaning against a tree is why I tried a 44 mag. I never encountered any bears I needed to test it on, but later went back to carrying my 45/70. I just felt safer and I could take a caribou with it if I wanted.

    Has anyone seen any testing comparing 45/70 to 12 ga. slugs in ballistic gel? I would be interested to see the results.

  15. #15
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    For me it would be my Marlin 45/70. That gun puts a smile on my face every time.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    I've shot 300 lb. plus hogs with the Marlin 45-70 and they act like they hit an invisible wall...it's a real thumper.

  17. #17
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    im thinking if 44 mag is effective enough for folks that live in places like Alaska where they have to have effective medicine for trouble brown bears it would be equally effective in a rifle and the 444 and 45-70 would be some added insurance.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy 414gates's Avatar
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    Ruger Alaskan is as short as a lever gun, and easier to handle in a big bore caliber.

    Felt recoil is greatly reduced with the Hogue stock, making follow-up shots rapidly possible.

    Feeding is reliable.

    400 grain .416 with soft points.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    ^^^^This^^^^

    Most Bear Hunting Guides carry a Pump Shotgun as a back up because of the Portability, Power, and Fast Follow Up Shots. There was a show in TV about the Polar Bear Guides in Churchill Manitoba. They all carried 870's loaded with Brenneke Slugs.

    If you are relying on a pistol you better be able to actually shoot it, and that takes lots and lots of practice. A Short Rifle in either .44 Magnum or .45-70 would be a better choice, but a 12 ga with proper slugs would easily be twice as powerful!

    I would also recommend a few Combat Shotgun Classes so you could get the hang of running the gun in close combat situations, and really get your gun handling down pat.

    There is a lot to learn there and it takes time to perfect the skills, but it takes less time than trying to become a deadeye shooter under pressure with a pistol.

    Randy
    I disagree, a 45/70 with 515 gr pure lead bullets weigh more than a 12ga slug, my guide gun carry's 7+ 1, a shot gun carry's 4 + 1. That 515 gr with 27 grs of 5744 under it, hits like a freight train, I lived and fished in bear country for many tears. Now here, the only bears around are big black bears. Had a 500 pounder denning on my land for years, his foot print in snow looked like a grislys. The guide gun is fast handling, is very accurate, has many rounds for backup, is easy to get on target, fast action, shoots good. Years ago we all carried shotguns with slugs, then found the guide gun and never looked back. When you have a grisly take a 100lb salmon off the back of your boat, I doubt you are going to argue? I don't.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    Bullet placement trumps all calibers. A 45/70 Marlin has proven to work for me. I carried a 44 mag sometimes. The argument of a gun on your person instead of leaning against a tree is why I tried a 44 mag. I never encountered any bears I needed to test it on, but later went back to carrying my 45/70. I just felt safer and I could take a caribou with it if I wanted.

    Has anyone seen any testing comparing 45/70 to 12 ga. slugs in ballistic gel? I would be interested to see the results.
    The 45/70 did way more than the 12ga, just do not remember where I saw the test??

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