Good Shot or Bad Shot on a whitetail? Graphic

[BK7saum]

Entrance

Exit

Location in upper chest.

Damage left lung

Damage right lung

4+ hours later, a finishing shot was needed.

[BK7saum]

Well, needless to say since I am asking the question (rhetorical), this didn't turn out as well as expected. Not a cast boolit, but .40 cal sabot at 1350fps, a typical handgun bullet/handgun velocity scenario with a Speer Gold Dot.

Deer was shot at 09:00 and was jumped at 09:45. We left and returned a couple hours later. Deer was found and a finishing shot needed at 13:10.

I have heard of but never personally seen this scenario play out. I have shot or assisted with recovery many deer. This shot has always been a DRT.

I am sure the slower velocity / decreased kinetic energy was a contributing factor in this situation, but never fathomed that this would not have been a fatal shot.

Just wanted to report a successful deer hunt and recovery of my daughter's second doe for the year.

Good luck to everyone this season.

[BLAHUT]

Years ago, I have seen a doe shot through and through with a 30/06, about in the same area, with about the same out come. Good you recovered dinner.

[high standard 40]

If shot placement had been about 3" lower I believe the result would have been much better. I high velocity bullet at your location would have had a much different outcome than what you experienced.

[M-Tecs]

In archery there is a myth of the void. Your shot location is the location of the mythical void. Under the spine but just the top of the lungs. They can go a long way with that hit. It's not a bad shot since you recovered it but as stated a little lower would have made for an easier recovery. A little higher would have taken the spine out.

[Jeff Michel]

High lung shot, takes a while but it does work. I would imagine that the body cavity was completely full of blood?

[longcruise]

I think I see two entry and two exits. Which is the original?

[BK7saum]

High lung shot, takes a while but it does work. I would imagine that the body cavity was completely full of blood?

There was minimal blood in the chest cavity. There were a few small spots on the lower lungs that were starting to turn red as blood had started to settle.

I honestly don't think this deer was in danger of bleeding out anytime soon.

I also don't know that this would have been fatal other than possible infection. The deer was alert when found/finished, but did not try to get up from where bedded.

[BK7saum]

I think I see two entry and two exits. Which is the original?

One entry, one exit. shoulder to shoulder.

There is an entry in the head with exit in the neck that was the finisher.

[BK7saum]

In archery there is a myth of the void. Your shot location is the location of the mythical void. Under the spine but just the top of the lungs. They can go a long way with that hit. It's not a bad shot since you recovered it but as stated a little lower would have made for an easier recovery. A little higher would have taken the spine out.

Yes, I told my daughter that a 1/2 higher would have been a spine shot. It literally cut the meat from the lower side of the spine without hitting bone.
An inch or two lower would have been a dead deer running.

[BK7saum]

If shot placement had been about 3" lower I believe the result would have been much better. I high velocity bullet at your location would have had a much different outcome than what you experienced.

Absolutely no doubt that 3" lower would have been a short death run. That is her "usual" shot location.

[megasupermagnum]

That is incredible. Just unlucky no arteries or anything were hit. It's still amazing she didn't suffocate. Apparently it was hit in just the right spot that the lungs never collapsed.

[Ramjet-SS]

Looks dead = shot was good

[megasupermagnum]

Looks dead = shot was good

The second one was. His first shot was not quickly fatal. Something really powerful like a shotgun slug, or a 30-06 would have taken out the spine, but his round simply blew through the lungs. Normally that is quickly fatal. It's quite amazing it wasn't. I never have believed in the "dead spot" being as it is medcially impossible, however, this is the best evidence I have ever seen that a shot at the extreme top of the lungs may not collapse the lungs. Still, think of the chances. 1/2" higher and it would have taken out the spine, 1/2" lower and it might have died like a normal double lunged deer. Who knows, repeat the same shot exactly, and the lungs might collapse next time!

[badwolf]

Hit a doe Sat in the same location, 243 with 90 nosler ballistic tip. Dropped at the shot. Surprised me cause the shoulder or spine weren't hit .

[dverna]

It makes one wonder if the same shot with a HV bullet would have resulted in a quicker kill.

MSM makes a good point. What are that chances of hitting such a small area where a “good” shot is not lethal?

You did a good job retrieving the deer so celebrate that.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm sure that was a lethal hit, but apparently not within 4 hours. Certainly it would have been dead the next day. It's hard to say if more velocity would have helped. I'm assuming this was a 45 caliber muzzleloader which is capable of a lot more speed, but his daughter might not have been. Would a 243 at 3200 fps have been better (may not have been legal rifle season)? Who knows. A really powerful round certainly would, but with that comes recoil.

At the end of the day, we are all just armchair QBing. My take away is to cheat down a little more on the chest. It seems quite a few deer are lost due to backstrap hits, and apparently very high lung shots are not much better than gut shots. I was never in favor of shoulder shots, but now I'm even more against them.

[M-Tecs]

It makes one wonder if the same shot with a HV bullet would have resulted in a quicker kill.

HV is on aspect but without expansion/energy transfer HV has it limits. Years ago I loaded some 270 175 Bitterroot bullets for a friend for a Candian moose hunt. He took a very nice bull and the bullets performed as expected. He gave me the leftover bullets. At the time I didn't own a 270. A couple years later a picked up a nice Pre64 Model 70 about a week before deer season. I loaded the 175 and went hunting.

I was on my way to may spot when a medium sized muley stopped about 150 yards in front of my truck. I put three rounds centered through both lungs. It made it about a mile and a half with 3 double lung shots. It was too weak to cross a fence but still standing when I put the 4th on through the neck. None of the three rounds through the lungs showed any expansion. If it wasn't open country and chased it with my truck I would have lost it. Had I been using a 130 or a 150 it wouldn't have made 30 yards on the first shot. I've made the same mistake with a 338 Win and a 375 H&H using bullets designed for much heavier game. Energy transfer is huge. HV without energy transfer not so much. Similar shots (center Double lung) with a 22-250 or 220 Swift with 55 grain softpoint didn't take a step

[BK7saum]

I'm sure that was a lethal hit, but apparently not within 4 hours. Certainly it would have been dead the next day. It's hard to say if more velocity would have helped. I'm assuming this was a 45 caliber muzzleloader which is capable of a lot more speed, but his daughter might not have been. Would a 243 at 3200 fps have been better (may not have been legal rifle season)? Who knows. A really powerful round certainly would, but with that comes recoil.

At the end of the day, we are all just armchair QBing. My take away is to cheat down a little more on the chest. It seems quite a few deer are lost due to backstrap hits, and apparently very high lung shots are not much better than gut shots. I was never in favor of shoulder shots, but now I'm even more against them.

To clarify, Muzzleloader is .50 with a .40 sabot and a .40/165 grain speer gold dot bullet at a chronoed 1350. Full expansion has been achieved previously in testing and on deer with this load. Petals are fully expanded on previous recovered bullets in a typical "speer gold dot" mushroom.

[BLAHUT]

I'm sure that was a lethal hit, but apparently not within 4 hours. Certainly it would have been dead the next day. It's hard to say if more velocity would have helped. I'm assuming this was a 45 caliber muzzleloader which is capable of a lot more speed, but his daughter might not have been. Would a 243 at 3200 fps have been better (may not have been legal rifle season)? Who knows. A really powerful round certainly would, but with that comes recoil.

At the end of the day, we are all just armchair QBing. My take away is to cheat down a little more on the chest. It seems quite a few deer are lost due to backstrap hits, and apparently very high lung shots are not much better than gut shots. I was never in favor of shoulder shots, but now I'm even more against them.

I Tend to agree. Head or neck shots. My problem, training, subcounches, Always brings me back to center mass.
I wonder what a pure lead bullet would have done with this hit ?