Well, needless to say since I am asking the question (rhetorical), this didn't turn out as well as expected. Not a cast boolit, but .40 cal sabot at 1350fps, a typical handgun bullet/handgun velocity scenario with a Speer Gold Dot.
Deer was shot at 09:00 and was jumped at 09:45. We left and returned a couple hours later. Deer was found and a finishing shot needed at 13:10.
I have heard of but never personally seen this scenario play out. I have shot or assisted with recovery many deer. This shot has always been a DRT.
I am sure the slower velocity / decreased kinetic energy was a contributing factor in this situation, but never fathomed that this would not have been a fatal shot.
Just wanted to report a successful deer hunt and recovery of my daughter's second doe for the year.
Good luck to everyone this season.
Years ago, I have seen a doe shot through and through with a 30/06, about in the same area, with about the same out come. Good you recovered dinner.
If shot placement had been about 3" lower I believe the result would have been much better. I high velocity bullet at your location would have had a much different outcome than what you experienced.
In archery there is a myth of the void. Your shot location is the location of the mythical void. Under the spine but just the top of the lungs. They can go a long way with that hit. It's not a bad shot since you recovered it but as stated a little lower would have made for an easier recovery. A little higher would have taken the spine out.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
High lung shot, takes a while but it does work. I would imagine that the body cavity was completely full of blood?
“Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.”
― Mark Twain
W8SOB
I think I see two entry and two exits. Which is the original?
There was minimal blood in the chest cavity. There were a few small spots on the lower lungs that were starting to turn red as blood had started to settle.
I honestly don't think this deer was in danger of bleeding out anytime soon.
I also don't know that this would have been fatal other than possible infection. The deer was alert when found/finished, but did not try to get up from where bedded.
That is incredible. Just unlucky no arteries or anything were hit. It's still amazing she didn't suffocate. Apparently it was hit in just the right spot that the lungs never collapsed.
Looks dead = shot was good
The second one was. His first shot was not quickly fatal. Something really powerful like a shotgun slug, or a 30-06 would have taken out the spine, but his round simply blew through the lungs. Normally that is quickly fatal. It's quite amazing it wasn't. I never have believed in the "dead spot" being as it is medcially impossible, however, this is the best evidence I have ever seen that a shot at the extreme top of the lungs may not collapse the lungs. Still, think of the chances. 1/2" higher and it would have taken out the spine, 1/2" lower and it might have died like a normal double lunged deer. Who knows, repeat the same shot exactly, and the lungs might collapse next time!
Last edited by megasupermagnum; 10-24-2022 at 09:22 PM.
Hit a doe Sat in the same location, 243 with 90 nosler ballistic tip. Dropped at the shot. Surprised me cause the shoulder or spine weren't hit .
It makes one wonder if the same shot with a HV bullet would have resulted in a quicker kill.
MSM makes a good point. What are that chances of hitting such a small area where a “good” shot is not lethal?
You did a good job retrieving the deer so celebrate that.
Don Verna
I'm sure that was a lethal hit, but apparently not within 4 hours. Certainly it would have been dead the next day. It's hard to say if more velocity would have helped. I'm assuming this was a 45 caliber muzzleloader which is capable of a lot more speed, but his daughter might not have been. Would a 243 at 3200 fps have been better (may not have been legal rifle season)? Who knows. A really powerful round certainly would, but with that comes recoil.
At the end of the day, we are all just armchair QBing. My take away is to cheat down a little more on the chest. It seems quite a few deer are lost due to backstrap hits, and apparently very high lung shots are not much better than gut shots. I was never in favor of shoulder shots, but now I'm even more against them.
Last edited by megasupermagnum; 10-24-2022 at 09:54 PM.
HV is on aspect but without expansion/energy transfer HV has it limits. Years ago I loaded some 270 175 Bitterroot bullets for a friend for a Candian moose hunt. He took a very nice bull and the bullets performed as expected. He gave me the leftover bullets. At the time I didn't own a 270. A couple years later a picked up a nice Pre64 Model 70 about a week before deer season. I loaded the 175 and went hunting.
I was on my way to may spot when a medium sized muley stopped about 150 yards in front of my truck. I put three rounds centered through both lungs. It made it about a mile and a half with 3 double lung shots. It was too weak to cross a fence but still standing when I put the 4th on through the neck. None of the three rounds through the lungs showed any expansion. If it wasn't open country and chased it with my truck I would have lost it. Had I been using a 130 or a 150 it wouldn't have made 30 yards on the first shot. I've made the same mistake with a 338 Win and a 375 H&H using bullets designed for much heavier game. Energy transfer is huge. HV without energy transfer not so much. Similar shots (center Double lung) with a 22-250 or 220 Swift with 55 grain softpoint didn't take a step
Last edited by M-Tecs; 10-24-2022 at 10:11 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
To clarify, Muzzleloader is .50 with a .40 sabot and a .40/165 grain speer gold dot bullet at a chronoed 1350. Full expansion has been achieved previously in testing and on deer with this load. Petals are fully expanded on previous recovered bullets in a typical "speer gold dot" mushroom.
Last edited by BK7saum; 10-24-2022 at 10:50 PM.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |