.44 Special +P First Foray

[wilecoyote]

. .......Saluti! (or as my ancestors would say, Slàinte!)

I fully agree about VVN110 and std. primers, as about the WW296 (with which I began) and magnum primers, then the 296 became unavailable here,
next I discovered that I could do .44 plinking even without pretending to be Elmer Keith_
and I learned more sedated solutions from your manuals and from your magazines, at the time.
Yes, all the manuals you mention are in my possession, and more, and the computer is certainly a great way to update it, even for me.
As far as I know, Vihtavuori has been acquired by Beretta, and Beretta imports this powder here, therefore it's the only quality brand widely available around here, if/when available, as the various primers these days, and not even I talk about today's ret. prices_
in any case I tend to work with components that I know and above all reasonably available, rather than studying any other powder, even better, generally Swedish or American, of which today I could find a pound and then never again for a year, as often happened here.
my poor trust on VV data finds reason in the suspicion that when VV entered the US market it boasted start-to-maximum performance achievable only with N110 doses that I prefer to avoid in my 29s, 27s and 19, especially considering my amateurish use, not hunting or silhouette comp., just to understand.
conversely I noticed that, in the absence of faster revolver powders at hand, the N110 itself can work well in 44mag. cases + cast in doses officially unsafe, below the recommended minimums, say at .44spl. recoil levels, without any problems and good accuracy, but these are my private games, byproduct of our gun-related laws that limit the overall amount of powder that can be held by a reloader, etc. etc._
this without questioning the validity of the official data, but trying to make the few pounds allowed work at their best, and taking into account that some rifle powder must also fit in my total allowed weight_

(I would really like fully answer you in Gaelic, but my translator has some limits
maybe some more Hennessy could help me, but I fear myself talkin'French next )
Kosh, thank for your attention and for the opportunity of some talk !

[wilecoyote]

Coyote Astuto (Amico mio!),

Vai al sito Web di VV e verifica se specificano i primer magnum per N110. Se non specificano il loro utilizzo, non li userei.

Saluti!

I checked: actually magnum primers are not indicated in my references from Vihtavuori manuals, so you are right.
I also checked my notes: I do not use them and I would not have used them anyway because with the N320, with a starting load as per the VV tables, etc., in .357magnum, I happened to have some perforated primers (normal CCI small pistol), for example. (with the N110 & CCI I had no strange surprises, o.c.).
note that I use an N frame before trying in a K frame .357_
I tend to work with dedicated attention, but still it gave me to think, because it certainly this does not depend on the honest CCI, in my book.

[ranchman]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...KT-and-VV-N110

N110 is a terrific powder for high end 44-special.. take a look at this previous thread about specifically that ... 17.5gr N110 has been my own go to load for maxed out 44 special performance for quite some time , (and) is a slightly lower pressure load than Elmers old 2400 one to boot. I've used both Rem 2,1/2 primers and Winchester large pistols with excellent results under N110. In special brass, and special-sized guns, that one will give about the nearest to 44mag performance a guy can get, very safely.

Give that thread a look

[smkummer]

A few years ago, I had a range day with my Colt New Frontier 7 1/2” 44 special. I had standard 44 special loads at about 750 fps, skeeter loads at 950 and Kieth loads at about 1100 or more. I had a metal target at 50 and about 125 yards. I throughly like the 750-950 loads at the 50 yard target. At 125 yards, it seemed I could not miss if I did my part with the 950 and 1100 fps loads. With the plow handle grip, the Kieth loads were not as fun. No doubt the double action grip would help the recoil a lot. The skeeter load would most likely punch through any deer here. I am convinced one only might need the Kieth load for longer ranges of which I probably wouldn’t try.

[wilecoyote]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...KT-and-VV-N110

N110 is a terrific powder for high end 44-special.. take a look at this previous thread about specifically that ... 17.5gr N110 has been my own go to load for maxed out 44 special performance for quite some time , (and) is a slightly lower pressure load than Elmers old 2400 one to boot. I've used both Rem 2,1/2 primers and Winchester large pistols with excellent results under N110. In special brass, and special-sized guns, that one will give about the nearest to 44mag performance a guy can get, very safely.
Give that thread a look

I don't know how to thank you enough for the link you gave me !:
I didn't expect to find a study about the N110, let alone the LG's evaluations !

[Scrumbag]

if allowed, I only have VV available here, and I reload .44mag._
I have been using VV N110 for about twenty years,
therefore more progressive than 105, without any need for magnum primers.
hope can help_

That's very helpful! I like Viht powders and have some N110

[Scrumbag]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...KT-and-VV-N110

N110 is a terrific powder for high end 44-special.. take a look at this previous thread about specifically that ... 17.5gr N110 has been my own go to load for maxed out 44 special performance for quite some time , (and) is a slightly lower pressure load than Elmers old 2400 one to boot. I've used both Rem 2,1/2 primers and Winchester large pistols with excellent results under N110. In special brass, and special-sized guns, that one will give about the nearest to 44mag performance a guy can get, very safely.

Give that thread a look

That really is very helpful, thank you so much!

[ranchman]

Wile & Scrum..

Appreciate your comments. There was a time about 10 years ago that I was in the same boat as you guys, no available 2400 to be found, but a similar burn-rate N110 in ample supply. I worked up handloads with N110 then, and have stuck with it ever since for serious field loads in my 41's & 44. Larry agreed to shoot pressures awhile back to verify what I found in my 44 specials, and as ya guys see in the other thread, it's all spot on, valuable data.

Certainly no handicap to only have VvN110 at hand, should the old standbys be out of stock or altogether unavailable!

[wilecoyote]

Ranchman...all I can tell is that 18 grs.of VV N110 in .44 mag. cases offer very mild recoil and good accuracy with 240 cast, no gas check, no leading, although it is a relatively expensive solution compared to a few grains of N 320 to get the same plinking goal_ this in my 29-2 8.3/8", which I don't like to torment to hole some cardboard_

[Scrumbag]

Wile & Scrum..

Appreciate your comments. There was a time about 10 years ago that I was in the same boat as you guys, no available 2400 to be found, but a similar burn-rate N110 in ample supply. I worked up handloads with N110 then, and have stuck with it ever since for serious field loads in my 41's & 44. Larry agreed to shoot pressures awhile back to verify what I found in my 44 specials, and as ya guys see in the other thread, it's all spot on, valuable data.

Certainly no handicap to only have VvN110 at hand, should the old standbys be out of stock or altogether unavailable!

Morning Ranchman,

Good to know it works. Appreciate the data too. It's the one criticisim of Vihtavouri I have recently is the lack of data they produce (Though to be fair recently they have been adding a lot more data).

Scrummy

[Scrumbag]

Ranchman...all I can tell is that 18 grs.of VV N110 in .44 mag. cases offer very mild recoil and good accuracy with 240 cast, no gas check, no leading, although it is a relatively expensive solution compared to a few grains of N 320 to get the same plinking goal_ this in my 29-2 8.3/8", which I don't like to torment to hole some cardboard_

Wiley, have you heard that Viht will discontinue N105, N530 and N32C Tin star? However, Reload Swiss are bringing out a powder called RS14 which is supposed to be very like Trail Boss.

[wilecoyote]

Wiley, have you heard that Viht will discontinue N105, N530 and N32C Tin star? However, Reload Swiss are bringing out a powder called RS14 which is supposed to be very like Trail Boss.

to be honest i'm relying on my pre-pandemic stuff, and I'm not very up to date, but since Vitht. now belongs to the Beretta group (bad news, imho), any first hand info shouldn't be hard to get here, if of interest.
(never used 530 nor 105, and probably discontinued due to lack of good sales)
I'm not in the Cowboy Shooting circuit, so I know little about the powders generally indicated for this and used by these shooters, how could they be N32CTS or RS14, I suppose.
RS powders were very appreciated here although quite hard to find,
so much so that we had to look for them in Austria_
we hope for the best, despite the current prices...

[Scrumbag]

Yes I really like Reload Swiss - RS60 and RS70 are my 2 favourite "High Energy" powders.

Scrummy

[Scrumbag]

Well folks, got to the range and did a little testing with the load ladder.

Some good results. Might try a magnum primer with some of the more promising charge weights as well.

50yds out of a 20" barrel lever action.



Probably the best of the groups but some of the higher charge weights seemed to split 2 and 2 so wonder if a mag primer might sort velocity out a bit.

[racepres]

Quick question...How do y'all ensure that those rounds don't find their way into a "lesser" firearm??
ie, for some rounds, I use an entirely different Projectile, Hot to Moderate... Others (38-357) I load Hot 38 Spl to Longer OAL... (34-44, must go into a 357 chamber)
and so on!!!
Just a curiosity to me...as I get older...I need substantial Verification....

[Scrumbag]

Well, not a problem for me. I only have a .44 mag lever action so can't put a anything hotter than that in it.

[racepres]

Well, not a problem for me. I only have a .44 mag lever action so can't put a anything hotter than that in it.

Got it... Strangely, around me, .44 Mag brass is Plentiful +. While .44 Spl is "Hens Teeth".
Such that any neck split Mags get "new life" as Spl for Shot, or other Special loadings...
Sorry for the Drift...

[Scrumbag]

Got it... Strangely, around me, .44 Mag brass is Plentiful +. While .44 Spl is "Hens Teeth".
Such that any neck split Mags get "new life" as Spl for Shot, or other Special loadings...
Sorry for the Drift...

Not at all, helps. Special tends to be something you end up ordering but you can get it here. Also some of the historic guys are happy for Special being shot, but not 44 mag (too new)