.44 Special +P First Foray

[Scrumbag]

Good evening all,

Hope this finds everyone well after the week. Popped out to the garage for an hour this evening and loaded up some punchy 44 special.



Loaded up a ladder with Handloader Magazine data for .44 Special +P as the bullets are just a bit too long to cycle well in my .44 mag lever action and I liked the idea of a faster, punchier recoiling load. It’s a 25kpsi load and given .44 mag tops out at nearly 40kpsi should be fine.

Anyway, it’s quite a “historic” load – 15.2-16.7gr of 2400 coming up in 0.2gr increments. A hot .44 Special load? Must be challenging my inner Elmer! (Hopefully it’s Keith rather than Fudd…)

Scrummy

[Bazoo]

Interesting to challenge Keith with a Thompson bullet.

I’ve never messed with that area yet but I may some day. Interested to see how it goes.

[Scrumbag]

@Bazoo yep, a bit of a juxtaposition but I think will work. If not, back to the drawing board.

Still, have nearly 1,000 of these bullets so I have some chance for experimentation

[Bazoo]

I have been wanting to get copies of both a 429215 and a 429244 myself. I have the RCBS 44-240-swc and haven’t had the best results. But I think part of it is me. The lee 432-265-RF ranchdog is accurate though in the limited tests I’ve done. But it ain’t really to my liking. I like the RCBS 44-250-k I have, but I am just getting into the experiments really. So far so good.

And I have a lee 429-200-rf that I have high hopes for.

[Paul105]

One of my favorite bullets in 44s.

Here's a couple 25 yd groups with different manufacturer's 429244s. Rest at 25 yds from my FA97 .44 special. Bullets seated to and crimped in crimp grove. Starline cases (not top brass as stated on targets).


.

.

My most used 44 Mag load is 17.5gr A2400 in .44 MAGNUM CASES with the bullet deep seated and crimped over the front drive band (also works with Lyman Keith 250 and 240gr SWCBB commercial cast). DO NOT DEEP SEAT IN 44 SPECIAL CASES.

[Scrumbag]

Very good stuff @paul105.

I might try seating deep with 44 mag to see how it goes.

[Scrumbag]

Bazoo, sounds like you are well sorted

[Bazoo]

That is good shooting Paul. I can do about twice that on a good day with irons. But I ain’t pushing the limit either. Recoil doesn’t suit me. I can’t tolerate anything over about the skeeter load, and not much of that because of CTS.

Scrumbag, here’s a thread that might interest you. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...thread.903012/

[Paul105]

Here's another target shot with the Freedom Arms Model 97 (this is a strong platform): 325gr (load data not given)Top and a medium load with the 429244 and 6.0gr HP38 bottom right.
.

.
.

.
Don't have a picture and this is a cast bullet forum but the Hornady 180gr JHP may be the most accurate bullet in my FA M97.

So, there you have it, from mild to wild and bullet weights from 180 to 325, the mid sized FA97 44 special is an extremely versatile little package.
.

.
.
.
.
.
Was doing some load verification with several guns and a couple of differnt loads -- here's one shot with the 429244 in a S&W .44 Mag 6" Classic DX. 3 shots only to verify loads accy. Rested at 50 yards
.

[Scrumbag]

@Bazoo, thanks for that, interesting reading.

Interested to see Vihtavouri powders coming up a bit. They are rated as good here but don't always see as much data as one would like.

I am still working through Unique for my plinking loads. I think I have finally found a volumetric powder thrower that gives consistent charges with it so that helps.

Scrummy

[Bazoo]

@Bazoo, thanks for that, interesting reading.

Interested to see Vihtavouri powders coming up a bit. They are rated as good here but don't always see as much data as one would like.

I am still working through Unique for my plinking loads. I think I have finally found a volumetric powder thrower that gives consistent charges with it so that helps.

Scrummy

You bet.

I use a lee perfect powder measure. I’m okay with unique but it doesn’t measure as good as others. I hit the mark or get .1 lighter. I can live with it. If anything is off with the throw, I rethrow. It has varied as much as .2 but as long as I’m in my rhythm it’s .1.

[Scrumbag]

You bet.

I use a lee perfect powder measure. I’m okay with unique but it doesn’t measure as good as others. I hit the mark or get .1 lighter. I can live with it. If anything is off with the throw, I rethrow. It has varied as much as .2 but as long as I’m in my rhythm it’s .1.

I have found an Auto Drum with an aftermarket hopper with a baffle in it to work best. I think I would prefer something that's a ball or at least less large flake powder next time

Scrummy

[Kosh75287]

We took a friend's 6" barreled S&W M624 on an "almost magnum" load soiree, and it was an education. We tried the 7.5/Unique/240-250 gr. LSWC load, and quickly learned why Messrs. Keith and Skelton thought so highly of it.
The 17.5/2400/240-250 gr. LSWC load seemed overly steep to the owner of the M624, so we did some reading, figuring, and head-scratching.
The "hottest" manual we had on hand listed 17.0/2400/240 as a maximum load. Another one was 17.7/2400/215 gr. LSWC ('button nose"?). We decided to err on the side of caution in both directions, and loaded 18 rounds of 17.0/2400/215 gr. LSWC. The velocity for the 240 gr. maximum load was ~1100 f/s. I don't recall the velocity for the max 215 gr. load, but OURs were likely doing all of 1100 f/s, and perhaps 1200. This was before we could afford chronographs, sadly.
None of us reported being sad that we didn't push either bullet weight to the maximum charge. We made more of the load on which we agreed, and shot it often. It was as close to "playin' Elmer Keith", as we needed to get.

[Scrumbag]

We took a friend's 6" barreled S&W M624 on an "almost magnum" load soiree, and it was an education. We tried the 7.5/Unique/240-250 gr. LSWC load, and quickly learned why Messrs. Keith and Skelton thought so highly of it.
The 17.5/2400/240-250 gr. LSWC load seemed overly steep to the owner of the M624, so we did some reading, figuring, and head-scratching.
The "hottest" manual we had on hand listed 17.0/2400/240 as a maximum load. Another one was 17.7/2400/215 gr. LSWC ('button nose"?). We decided to err on the side of caution in both directions, and loaded 18 rounds of 17.0/2400/215 gr. LSWC. The velocity for the 240 gr. maximum load was ~1100 f/s. I don't recall the velocity for the max 215 gr. load, but OURs were likely doing all of 1100 f/s, and perhaps 1200. This was before we could afford chronographs, sadly.
None of us reported being sad that we didn't push either bullet weight to the maximum charge. We made more of the load on which we agreed, and shot it often. It was as close to "playin' Elmer Keith", as we needed to get.

Sounds good, Kosh.

I'm only going to be running these through a lever action but as I think they are a bit over 1.55" they aren't that far off where a lot of manufacturers load their .44 mag rounds. Think 16.7gr should be enough for a bit more thump on the shoulder than 8gr of Unique and a 240gr RNFP

Scrummy

[Scrumbag]

Bazoo, quick question for you: Do you think N105 needs a Magnum primer? (am loading up some 180gr non-lead in .44 mag)

Scrummy

[Bazoo]

I don’t know sir. Unfortunately I don’t have experience with any of the VV powders yet.

A little googling found this https://www.vihtavuori.com/powder/n105-super-magnum/ and in their 44 mag data they have listed standard primer. So I’d be comfortable with it.

[wilecoyote]

Bazoo, quick question for you: Do you think N105 needs a Magnum primer? (am loading up some 180gr non-lead in .44 mag)Scrummy

if allowed, I only have VV available here, and I reload .44mag._
I have been using VV N110 for about twenty years,
therefore more progressive than 105, without any need for magnum primers.
hope can help_

[Kosh75287]

Coyote Astuto (Amico mio!),

Vai al sito Web di VV e verifica se specificano i primer magnum per N110. Se non specificano il loro utilizzo, non li userei.

Saluti!

[wilecoyote]

Coyote Astuto (Amico mio!),Vai al sito Web di VV e verifica se specificano i primer magnum per N110. Se non specificano il loro utilizzo, non li userei.Saluti!

Kosh,
since 2000 or thereabouts, that is, anyway long before I had a computer, I reload exclusively with Vihtavuori in my handguns.
that doesn't make me an expert handloader in any way, but over time I have learned to consider with extreme caution what they indicated on their reloading manuals, especially as regards the maximum values of recommended doses, as well as regarding the minimum recommended.
even about the primers to use I never have full confidence in what is written on the tables.
this is because I risk myself and my vintage S&Ws first.
regarding the use of which primers in my 29s., the normal CCI LPP 300 have always served me well. this with VV N320, VV N350, VV N110_
of course I'm talking about reliability/safety and not necessarily max performance studies, which are not in my abilities nor my ending goal_

I also confess that even if usually I don't carpe Scotch, I often carpe Hennessy
prosit !

[Kosh75287]

Do you have a reloading manual from some other company that is new enough to include VV propellants? The online Speer manual lists the use of CCI 300 (Standard Large Pistol) primers in .454 Casull. .45 Colt for Ruger & T/C pistols only, and in .357 Magnum. In all of these calibers, H110/W296 was used with magnum pistol ptimers, so it looks like they're not hesitant to use magnum pistol primers when indicated. I tried to look up .44 Magnum data, but their website has it temporarily unavailable. The .41 Magnum data is the same way.
I get that you do not trust VV's data, but I've found Speer to be very reliable for nearly 40 years. MY conclusion is that N110 is best used with standard pistol primers, whether large or small.

And I'VE also disposed of a litre or 10 of Hennessy, in my younger days! I remember it fondly!

Saluti! (or as my ancestors would say, Slàinte!)