Small milling machines

[DougGuy]

I picked this one up out of Facebook Marketplace for $1500 it came with some collets and a few other things. It's 110v or 220v single phase. I bought a nice 3" vise and some end mills. It's Central Machinery and the stand is HF, I think all of it came from HF. Stay away from the gold colored HF end mills in the $75 box.

I machined the handles to fit as it had those crappy plastic Grizzly handles. They were the first thing that went in the trash. The vise in this photo is a freebie, it was sorta junk no wonder it was free, it'll do for the drill press..

[Hannibal]

That changes the landscape a bit , I'd be inclined to start looking for a used mill , grizzly has made tens of thousands of the g0704 and it seems to be quite common for a fellow to decide to upgrade after a year or three or just learn that metal working isn't for them .
If your not in a hurry one's sure to pop up .

I can't think of any problems mine ever gave me , some complain about the plastic gears , I've never had an issue or replaced them .
I did take it completely apart when I got it , cleaned it and stoned all the gibbs and sliding surfaces , kept it cleaned lubed up and used the heck out it .

No, I'm not in a hurry. I've one particular project I'll need a mill to complete but I've got a lot of research and planning to do before I start cutting any metal so there's no rush. Just trying to gather up my options so I can decide what will be the best choice given my situation and limitations I have to work with.
I appreciate all the ideas and suggestions.

[HWooldridge]

You might look for an older machine in the hobby size range. South Bend made some small mills, as did Atlas. The British made several brands for model making - a few made it across the pond.

Atlas also made a small shaper that’s great for some types of work, like key ways and such. I used to own a big Hendey tool room shaper that I never used much and eventually sold it. I think I had it about 10 years and ran two jobs across it, both of which could have gone on the Bridgeport VM.

[uscra112]

Back on the '90s I had to relocate from Rhode Island to Michigan. Being strapped at the time, I sold my rebuilt 10EE and my Millrite. After a couple of years out there I bought one of those HF round-column mill-drill machines "to tide me over until I could manage a Bridgeport". That never happened. 25 years later I've still got the mill-drill, and it has done everything I've needed it to do as an amateur gunsmith. Maybe a few times I've farmed out a job it couldn't handle, and sometimes I wish it had power feed, but I get by. About ten years ago I mounted a DRO on the X-axis, and I have a bracket to mount a 2" travel indicator for the Y-axis when I need it. It has the R-8 nose, and I've used a 2" face mill once or twice. Light cuts. Z-axis feed precision stinks. I work around that when I have to.

I "got by" with a modified Prazi bench lathe until I retired, when I was able to finally set up a South Bend 10" Heavy that I bought while TDY in Minneapolis and dragged back to Michigan. It sat in storage for eight years, then got dragged to my retirement BOL in Ohio. The Prazi didn't thread, so I often thought about replacing it with a better bench lathe, but never did. The SB does, so that problem is moot.

Best thing I did for the SB was to get a 5C collet chuck for it. The 4-jaw only gets mounted for barrel work, and the new 3-jaw I bought is still in the box.

Lastly, a near-mint Unimat 3 fell into my lap last year. Nothing beats it for modifying brass. I do a lot of that. Weighs just 20 pounds. I set it on my computer desk so I can work seated.

[TrxR]

How big of a mill would a guy need to say inlet a rifle stock?

[Hannibal]

How big of a mill would a guy need to say inlet a rifle stock?

I think that would be a matter of bed travel. Someone mentioned that before but my thinking was I would use a raw blank and a router and jig for such an operation. Perhaps someone else who has done this on a vertical mill will chime in with more particulars.

[Bent Ramrod]

You’d need to specify the extent of the inletting you want on the stock.

I’ve done rough inletting for action tangs on a Barker horizontal milling machine after making some mandrels for the appropriate width cutters. There was still a fair amount left for chisels and scrapers, but the depth and relative positions of top and bottom tangs were at least established.

For a full inlet job (and the outside shape for that matter) a pantograph milling machine is the way to go. You move a tracer around a model stock, and the cutter on the other side reproduces everything on the blank at the other end of the table.

Before I retired, I studied the LA area Craig’s List about every night and planned buying forays on weekends. There was a business downturn going on at the time, and, more importantly, I planned to move to an area that had much less in the way of manufacturing and industry, so I figured this was my best chance for bargains. I managed to get three benchtop mills (and a lot of other Stuff) before I moved out of there: the Barker, an Atlas horizontal, and a Benchmaster vertical. All run on 115-v single phase house current. I probably use the Benchmaster the most. I wanted the knee table for depth, rather than a quill downfeed, and the small bench mills (at least in my price range) are mostly either-or. On the other hand, a local gunsmith built target rifles with his lathe and a medium sized mill-drill with the round column, and he didn’t seem to be at any disadvantage.

So you might start looking at internet marketplaces like Craig’s List, and see what’s out there. You will need to do some research on what to look (and watch out for) in buying used machine tools, but it isn’t any more complicated than judging used guns or used cars once you’ve done the research. There’s a site that has very good descriptions of all the old machinery models; I think it’s called lathes.uk or something. So if somebody offers a Tom Senior mill for sale, you will know what it is after you look it up.

On one of the trips to pick up a grinder, the seller showed me two pantograph mills he had in his shop and said he’d make me a deal. The things were 220-v, 3-phase, and one would have needed a flatbed truck to haul home and a separate building to house it. I had to demur, and I cried all the way home.

[Green Frog]

Just a random thought; Atlas made a bench top horizontal mill through the middle of the last century. If you’re looking at used tools, these are still around and can be had fairly reasonably. There is a good sized, active users’ community so parts, original or newly made, are available. The strong point about this type of mill is its rigidity for its size, and once you learn to think in horizontal terms, it’s amazing what you can do with it. There are even horizontal to vertical adaptors available for them, but I don’t have any experience with them.

Froggie

[country gent]

The bridgeport and those style mills were never advertised as heavy mills but as universal mills. They could be set up for almost any job. In the tool room when we had a lot o metal to remove it was the Cincinnati or Milwaukee we set up. Or a shaper. Rough the part in in the heavy mill and finish it on the bridgeport if needed. I look at the mini mills the same way great for light jobs but heavy work takes a lot longer. I have a bridgeport in the shop and love it, but if I come across a deal on a small to medium sized shaper or Cincinnati or Milwaukee mill I will add it to the machines.

You need to be with in your shops limitations as to size and power, then work with in the machines capabilities. If you have to make a few more passes to get where you need thats the trade off.

The other thing is a good saw can save a lot of mill work for you, a decent vertical cut off saw can rough in a lot before going to the mill, and leave the pieces for future use. When I make tooling like angle plates or vee blocks they are cut out on the saw leaving .100 to clean and square up. With the saw and some lay out ink you can save a lot of mill work.

[country gent]

The bridgeport and those style mills were never advertised as heavy mills but as universal mills. They could be set up for almost any job. In the tool room when we had a lot o metal to remove it was the Cincinnati or Milwaukee we set up. Or a shaper. Rough the part in in the heavy mill and finish it on the bridgeport if needed. I look at the mini mills the same way great for light jobs but heavy work takes a lot longer. I have a bridgeport in the shop and love it, but if I come across a deal on a small to medium sized shaper or Cincinnati or Milwaukee mill I will add it to the machines.

You need to be with in your shops limitations as to size and power, then work with in the machines capabilities. If you have to make a few more passes to get where you need thats the trade off.

The other thing is a good saw can save a lot of mill work for you, a decent vertical cut off saw can rough in a lot before going to the mill, and leave the pieces for future use. When I make tooling like angle plates or vee blocks they are cut out on the saw leaving .100 to clean and square up. With the saw and some lay out ink you can save a lot of mill work.

[Hannibal]

The bridgeport and those style mills were never advertised as heavy mills but as universal mills. They could be set up for almost any job. In the tool room when we had a lot o metal to remove it was the Cincinnati or Milwaukee we set up. Or a shaper. Rough the part in in the heavy mill and finish it on the bridgeport if needed. I look at the mini mills the same way great for light jobs but heavy work takes a lot longer. I have a bridgeport in the shop and love it, but if I come across a deal on a small to medium sized shaper or Cincinnati or Milwaukee mill I will add it to the machines.

You need to be with in your shops limitations as to size and power, then work with in the machines capabilities. If you have to make a few more passes to get where you need thats the trade off.

The other thing is a good saw can save a lot of mill work for you, a decent vertical cut off saw can rough in a lot before going to the mill, and leave the pieces for future use. When I make tooling like angle plates or vee blocks they are cut out on the saw leaving .100 to clean and square up. With the saw and some lay out ink you can save a lot of mill work.

Another member posted this in a thread. I'd never considered approaching a job this way. Definitely not the quickest way but shows what's possible with some ingenuity.

[super6]

And now you will need a surface grinder...Just saying.

[Hannibal]

And now you will need a surface grinder...Just saying.

Not necessarily. You'd be amazed what can be done with flat files and a flat diamond hone. Not everything is about getting things done as quickly as possible. If someone wants fast then garage projects aren't worth your time. They are about working with your hands, learning new things and skills and testing your limits and abilities. Not everyone is interested in such things which is perfectly fine and the way things should be.

[super6]

Not necessarily. You'd be amazed what can be done with flat files and a flat diamond hone. Not everything is about getting things done as quickly as possible. If someone wants fast then garage projects aren't worth your time. They are about working with your hands, learning new things and skills and testing your limits and abilities. Not everyone is interested in such things which is perfectly fine and the way things should be.

It was me joking sorry, If you got offended.

[Hannibal]

It was me joking sorry if you got offended.

Not offended at all but I did take you as being serious. There are lots of folks in the world and on the internet who seem to find fault with anything someone wants to try and do but I don't let that bother me.

[redneck1]

There's been some mention of small horizontal mills .
I have some thoughts on this , they have some shortcomings .
With the typical long narrow table and limited y axis travel if a person wanted a mill for typical things like drilling and boring holes they are near abouts worthless , even with a vertical head adapter they still prove to be a challenge to work with as they also tend to have a limited z axis to go along with the y .
For a garage shop I tend to view them as a support machine unless you have very specific needs .
But if you don't need a machine to drill or bore if you are creative in your set ups a person can do a whole lot of good work on one if your comfortable working blind with the dials .

[uscra112]

I can't remember his name, but we had an ASSRA member (a Brit, and sadly deceased) who built an entire Sharps Borchardt action on a British equivalent of a Sherline machine.

[nuclearcricket]

I have a Grizzly 0704 mill. Its no bridgport and over all not a bad hobby mill if you work within its limitations. Shop around places that sell used stuff, especially if you are close to a medium to large university. Students will buy stuff and then have to get rid of it when they move to a real job. I got my mill for about $450 or so. The owner was no machinist but other than a bit of rust in places he didnt hurt it. Things you want to spend good money on are a good 4" vice for a mill that size. I have one of the Grizzly vices I got with the mill. Its just ok, but will flex if you lean on the handle. There are some out there that are close in quality to a Kurt and that is what you want. You definitely want an R8 spindle. Collets and solid holders are easy to come by and not overly expensive if you shop around. Some good quality oil will also be needed, way oil is what is called for and any medium sized machine shop will have lots on hand and you can probably get a pint from them for very little. That much will last you a long time.
Figure any low cost machine is going to need a bit of a tune up from the start. With my mill I had to do a lot of adjusting on the gibs to get the slop out of the travel. I have it to the point now its very smooth and little to no shake in the table. A test indicator and one or 2 of the AGD indicators with magnetic bases are very handy to have.
If you are willing to put in the time doing some search and research you can find some good buys out there. And these small machines will do good work if you put in the time to go slow and check things often.
Sam

[Hannibal]

I have a Grizzly 0704 mill. Its no bridgport and over all not a bad hobby mill if you work within its limitations. Shop around places that sell used stuff, especially if you are close to a medium to large university. Students will buy stuff and then have to get rid of it when they move to a real job. I got my mill for about $450 or so. The owner was no machinist but other than a bit of rust in places he didnt hurt it. Things you want to spend good money on are a good 4" vice for a mill that size. I have one of the Grizzly vices I got with the mill. Its just ok, but will flex if you lean on the handle. There are some out there that are close in quality to a Kurt and that is what you want. You definitely want an R8 spindle. Collets and solid holders are easy to come by and not overly expensive if you shop around. Some good quality oil will also be needed, way oil is what is called for and any medium sized machine shop will have lots on hand and you can probably get a pint from them for very little. That much will last you a long time.
Figure any low cost machine is going to need a bit of a tune up from the start. With my mill I had to do a lot of adjusting on the gibs to get the slop out of the travel. I have it to the point now its very smooth and little to no shake in the table. A test indicator and one or 2 of the AGD indicators with magnetic bases are very handy to have.
If you are willing to put in the time doing some search and research you can find some good buys out there. And these small machines will do good work if you put in the time to go slow and check things often.
Sam

I definitely need to find out where to look for used machines locally. My SouthBend came from a university not far away and it shows some marks from student mistakes but nothing that harms it's function. Craigslist was my go-to back then but it isn't what it once was. I think I'll start a thread about locating used machines and see if anyone has some good ideas.

[M-Tecs]

I definitely need to find out where to look for used machines locally. My SouthBend came from a university not far away and it shows some marks from student mistakes but nothing that harms it's function. Craigslist was my go-to back then but it isn't what it once was. I think I'll start a thread about locating used machines and see if anyone has some good ideas.

Facebook marketplace has been very good for me.